Possible Constituent Nations of a Modern Imperial Federation

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Deleted member 157939

I was recently doing some research on South Africa's withdrawal from the Commonwealth and abolition of the monarchy which rekindled my interest in the concept of an Imperial Federation. Therefore I was wondering that should a Imperial Federation exist today, what nations would it comprise of? Apart from the obvious CANZUK nations, who else would remain part of such an organization? For the sake of the scenario, lets assume this Commonwealth/Federation would be a superpower of some sorts capable of controlling the remnants of the decaying Empire. I would immediately disregard the notion of India for the sake of keeping this at least slightly plausible. Could we perhaps see some Caribbean and African nations opting to remain federated under the British crown, perhaps Sierra Leon, Bahamas, possibly at a stretch a secessionist Natal or Rhodesia? Could the Federation possibly hold territories in the Middle East and Asia such as Singapore, Aden or the Trucial states (UAE, Qatar and Bahrain), I remember reading that Abu Dhabi's emir Sheikh Zayed attempted to persuade the Labour Government to honour their previous protection treaties by offering to pay in full the costs of keeping British armed forces in the region.
 
I was recently doing some research on South Africa's withdrawal from the Commonwealth and abolition of the monarchy which rekindled my interest in the concept of an Imperial Federation. Therefore I was wondering that should a Imperial Federation exist today, what nations would it comprise of?
Probably needs a 19th century POD (so pre-1900) and would need actual widespread interest both in the UK and overseas (of which, in the UK's case, there definitely was not outside of Joseph Chamberlain's circle). Otherwise:
Apart from the obvious CANZUK nations, who else would remain part of such an organization?
If the POD is far enough back that Canada and Newfoundland (still a separate Dominion at this time) are included, there's already a major problem lodged within the system, even more so than Ireland. It's Québec, or rather the whole of French Canada (of which in Québec it's in the majority). As French-Canadian nationalism matures, its people are going to find the Imperial Federation arrangement unsatisfactory since it's just colonialism by another name. Therefore, it's going to want independence, if not for all of Canada than just Québec and maybe some adjacent areas of Ontario and New Brunswick. Then the Imperial Federation starts to become unworkable with the departure of Canada, even in part.

For the sake of the scenario, lets assume this Commonwealth/Federation would be a superpower of some sorts capable of controlling the remnants of the decaying Empire.
"Superpowers" really don't exist outside of a Cold War-era conquest just for the US and the USSR. If similar entities existed at all, the preferred term during the period was "Great Power". Much less attractive, but still gets the point across.

I would immediately disregard the notion of India for the sake of keeping this at least slightly plausible.
And that's going to be another thorn in the Imperial Federation's side, outside of French Canada. Given the Second British Empire existed primarily to serve India, Indian politicians will demand it be included inside the Imperial Federation. If it's excluded, it's going to demand independence - which means the Empire will go and the Imperial Federation will start to develop cracks.

Could we perhaps see some Caribbean and African nations opting to remain federated under the British crown,
Of those two, even if the POD is far back enough, the Caribbean would much more likely than any of the African colonies. The vast majority of them would prefer independence, even Sierra Leone. However, having said that, if you really wanted to throw a left-field curveball on that - if the Caribbean is being retained, and if Britain still holds the Chagos Islands (now known as the BIOT), then it could be possible to retain Mauritius and the Seychelles, both of which are very diverse communities and which could be seen as the Indian Ocean's version of the Caribbean.

possibly at a stretch a secessionist Natal or Rhodesia?
Natal is a no because it would involve South Africa, which was never really all that interested in the British in the first place. So South Africa would have to be coaxed in somehow into the Imperial Federation, which means London would be ultimately responsible for apartheid (even if it was stuck in its pre-1948 forms) whether or not it consented to it. As for Rhodesia - which one? Northern or Southern? Though even in the latter case, a secessionist regime would not work if the majority of the population prefer independence over Imperial Federation, regardless of the wishes of the rulers.

Could the Federation possibly hold territories in the Middle East and Asia such as Singapore, Aden or the Trucial states (UAE, Qatar and Bahrain), I remember reading that Abu Dhabi's emir Sheikh Zayed attempted to persuade the Labour Government to honour their previous protection treaties by offering to pay in full the costs of keeping British armed forces in the region.
Singapore is a no - until independence, it was primarily an economic backwater whose only good fortune was its location. Otherwise, its leaders preferred joining what would eventually be Malaysia, no matter what, alongside fellow Straits Settlements Penang and Malacca. As I see it, the main way Singapore gets involved is if the other 2 Straits Settlements are included (the minor Strait Settlement at Dinding excepted), since even as far back as the early 20th century it would be hard to tell then what Singapore would become now.

Similar problems bedevil Aden and South Yemen. In this case, not only would the sheikhs and all that in the hinterland be consulted, but I would make the bold claim that holding onto Mauritius and Seychelles, not to mention keeping the Trucial States (except Oman - despite all appearances, it kept its independence all throughout this time), would be necessary for the security of South Yemen. Even then, pan-Arab sentiment means that Britain's holdings in the Middle East would eventually be on shakier ground. Something would have to give that would lead into demands that Britain withdraw from South Yemen and the Trucial States.

TL;DR - From my perspective, the Imperial Federation was unworkable even in theory, due to multiple factors both domestically and abroad. Once specific territories are named, then it becomes a problem where the risks outweigh the benefits, with especial problem areas being Canada (particularly French Canada) and India.
 
I always thought a economic federation with some overtones of defence co-operation may be possible EEC on steroids type deal......if you can bring in some non-Commonwealth/Empire members. How you'd actually achieve this not a clue.
 
Ireland, Malta and the Carribbean are achievable as part of a federation with a post-1900 pod but I think anything bigger and/or further away is too much of a stretch.
 

Deleted member 157939

Probably needs a 19th century POD (so pre-1900) and would need actual widespread interest both in the UK and overseas (of which, in the UK's case, there definitely was not outside of Joseph Chamberlain's circle). Otherwise:

If the POD is far enough back that Canada and Newfoundland (still a separate Dominion at this time) are included, there's already a major problem lodged within the system, even more so than Ireland. It's Québec, or rather the whole of French Canada (of which in Québec it's in the majority). As French-Canadian nationalism matures, its people are going to find the Imperial Federation arrangement unsatisfactory since it's just colonialism by another name. Therefore, it's going to want independence, if not for all of Canada than just Québec and maybe some adjacent areas of Ontario and New Brunswick. Then the Imperial Federation starts to become unworkable with the departure of Canada, even in part.


"Superpowers" really don't exist outside of a Cold War-era conquest just for the US and the USSR. If similar entities existed at all, the preferred term during the period was "Great Power". Much less attractive, but still gets the point across.


And that's going to be another thorn in the Imperial Federation's side, outside of French Canada. Given the Second British Empire existed primarily to serve India, Indian politicians will demand it be included inside the Imperial Federation. If it's excluded, it's going to demand independence - which means the Empire will go and the Imperial Federation will start to develop cracks.


Of those two, even if the POD is far back enough, the Caribbean would much more likely than any of the African colonies. The vast majority of them would prefer independence, even Sierra Leone. However, having said that, if you really wanted to throw a left-field curveball on that - if the Caribbean is being retained, and if Britain still holds the Chagos Islands (now known as the BIOT), then it could be possible to retain Mauritius and the Seychelles, both of which are very diverse communities and which could be seen as the Indian Ocean's version of the Caribbean.


Natal is a no because it would involve South Africa, which was never really all that interested in the British in the first place. So South Africa would have to be coaxed in somehow into the Imperial Federation, which means London would be ultimately responsible for apartheid (even if it was stuck in its pre-1948 forms) whether or not it consented to it. As for Rhodesia - which one? Northern or Southern? Though even in the latter case, a secessionist regime would not work if the majority of the population prefer independence over Imperial Federation, regardless of the wishes of the rulers.


Singapore is a no - until independence, it was primarily an economic backwater whose only good fortune was its location. Otherwise, its leaders preferred joining what would eventually be Malaysia, no matter what, alongside fellow Straits Settlements Penang and Malacca. As I see it, the main way Singapore gets involved is if the other 2 Straits Settlements are included (the minor Strait Settlement at Dinding excepted), since even as far back as the early 20th century it would be hard to tell then what Singapore would become now.

Similar problems bedevil Aden and South Yemen. In this case, not only would the sheikhs and all that in the hinterland be consulted, but I would make the bold claim that holding onto Mauritius and Seychelles, not to mention keeping the Trucial States (except Oman - despite all appearances, it kept its independence all throughout this time), would be necessary for the security of South Yemen. Even then, pan-Arab sentiment means that Britain's holdings in the Middle East would eventually be on shakier ground. Something would have to give that would lead into demands that Britain withdraw from South Yemen and the Trucial States.

TL;DR - From my perspective, the Imperial Federation was unworkable even in theory, due to multiple factors both domestically and abroad. Once specific territories are named, then it becomes a problem where the risks outweigh the benefits, with especial problem areas being Canada (particularly French Canada) and India.
You raise some very interesting points. Just slightly confused how would Quebecois indepdance render the Federation unworkable. As far as my current knowledge, I understood that at the time Quebec was one of the less influential provinces in Canada, with the French population alienated to the point of comp song themselves with the plight of African Americans in the South.

A secessionist movement did exist in the Natal (whose white population was majority English descended) following the abolition of the monarchy. Assuming South Africa in such a scenario withdraws itself from the Commonwealth and abolishes the monarchy as done in OTL, could the Natal possibly secede seeking to remain apart of whatever federation/commonwealth arrangement existed?
 
The original Federation movement wanted to govern all of India through D I R E C T R U L E but I don't think that would be tenable in the long run. I think they would preserve the largest Princely States as constitution countries, admit the major Raj provinces as constituents, and govern some of the minor provinces directly. So we could see the princely states in 2021.
 
How will Imperial federation effects Modern-day Especially with Covid pandemic probably negative impact on the Federation
 

CalBear

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Since the OP is departed and its been months since this was touched simply going to lock this down.
 
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