Possibily of a Turkestan state

Would a potential Kingdom of Turkestan in Medieval times be plausible? :rolleyes:
I found this map on the Internet, with modern borders though...

Location_of_Turkestan.png


Please comment!

(PS other map or flag proposals are much appreciated too!)
 
There were many Medieval Turcic states, but none of them covered exactly the territory you're highlighting here (except maybe the GokTurks, who were done as a power by the early 7th c.)

Wht exactly are you looking for?

Specifically, the Tarim basin is a highway to China and is separated from Kazakhstan by some serious mountains, as is Dzungaria/Semirechye from the rest of the steppe. It's not that there weren't empires that spanned across these barriers, but it helped create a succession of displacements (Shato, Kygryz, Gok-Turk, Uighur, Khitan, Kangly/Kipchak, Mongol, Kazakh, Dzungar...) mostly coming from the north/east and heading south/west.
 
i'd say the best candidate for forming a Turkestan in the medieval period and potentially keeping it that way (at least until the "modern" period) would be the Golden Horde
 
The northern 2/3 of the area, historically you don't get too much happening up there. Sparsely settled, steppe nomads passing through on their way South and West, etc. The population/economic/political centers of gravity lay further South.
Anyone controlling this area would want to control Afghanistan and much of Persia and Pakistan to create a lasting state and not an ephemeral khaganate.
Something like the Timurid empire (with more lucky succession practices).
 
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If we assume that the Muslim conquests of Central Asia are defeated by a Turkic warlord, then it is possible a Central Asian empire like this could exist with a capital in Samarkand most likely.

The hardest thing about Central Asia, is that its terrain advantages horse nomads, and the steppe makes it consequently always open to invasion.

Furthermore, the sheer size of the map would require a deep institutional government rather than the rule of one warlord. It's possible any one person could conquer such a large area. It is much more unlikely it can be held for any period of time. Within one or two successions, large parts of that empire will likely separate.
 
If we assume that the Muslim conquests of Central Asia are defeated by a Turkic warlord, then it is possible a Central Asian empire like this could exist with a capital in Samarkand most likely.

The hardest thing about Central Asia, is that its terrain advantages horse nomads, and the steppe makes it consequently always open to invasion.

Furthermore, the sheer size of the map would require a deep institutional government rather than the rule of one warlord. It's possible any one person could conquer such a large area. It is much more unlikely it can be held for any period of time. Within one or two successions, large parts of that empire will likely separate.

There was modest urban presense across the Steppe in the period immediaely preceding the Mongols, and Kwarazm/Khitans/Karakhans had institutions beyond just being warlords.

Things change of course and the challenges are great but there are many possibilities to choose from.
 
Thanks for all quick replies!

Indeed the Golden Horde, as on this map, would be quite a good 'option'.

Besides, I'm more looking for a ethnic Turkic empire/kingdom/republic/state/khanate rather than a powerful empire that conquers much land.
Therefore, I would prefer the Golden Horde without the European and Caucasus areas, and without the areas around Crimea - I would make this a seperate state.

Also, the following maps could be useful to have a look at:
1.
2.
3.
4.

And I found quite a nice flag (historically of the Kazakh Khanate):
200px-Kazakh_Khanate.svg.png


And this is also very useful!

Anyway, thanks a lot!
 
There was modest urban presense across the Steppe in the period immediaely preceding the Mongols, and Kwarazm/Khitans/Karakhans had institutions beyond just being warlords.

Things change of course and the challenges are great but there are many possibilities to choose from.

That's indeed true.
Just have a look at cities like Bukhara and Samarqand, and you are surely impressed by what those steppe-guys built and made :cool:!
 
Besides, I'm more looking for a ethnic Turkic empire/kingdom/republic/state/khanate rather than a powerful empire that conquers much land.
Therefore, I would prefer the Golden Horde without the European and Caucasus areas, and without the areas around Crimea - I would make this a seperate state.
I think those were many of the very areas that made the Golden Horde an on-going proposition...
 
Perhaps you may be looking at a possible surviving Chagatai Khanate as a candidate, though I wonder if you wanted a Turkestani state without the Mongol invasion.
 
There was modest urban presense across the Steppe in the period immediaely preceding the Mongols, and Kwarazm/Khitans/Karakhans had institutions beyond just being warlords.

Things change of course and the challenges are great but there are many possibilities to choose from.

Perhaps you may be looking at a possible surviving Chagatai Khanate as a candidate, though I wonder if you wanted a Turkestani state without the Mongol invasion.

Well, that's actually quite were I was looking for in terms of the region itself.
However, as you already mentioned, it is very Mongol-influenced, but that doesn't really matter because that's history, not the area I wanted to use for alternate history.

Here's a map:
640px-ChagataiKhanate1300.png
 
That's indeed true.
Just have a look at cities like Bukhara and Samarqand, and you are surely impressed by what those steppe-guys built and made :cool:!

No, I meant things like Balasagun and the towns in the Kangly steppe. The Mongols were very destructive even for Steppe people.

But Sogdiana and Kwarazm were definitely quite advanced areas.
 
Well, that's actually quite were I was looking for in terms of the region itself.
However, as you already mentioned, it is very Mongol-influenced, but that doesn't really matter because that's history, not the area I wanted to use for alternate history.

Here's a map:
640px-ChagataiKhanate1300.png

But I do like the more Southerly setting of this. More resources---human and otherwise.
 
And, in addition, I found this ethnic map of present-day Central Asia.

1024px-Central_Asia_Ethnic.jpg


Actually, I have another question, but it changes the original thread a bit...

How could one create a Medieval (Central) Asia without great empires having conquered, submissive peoples etc.? So, more 'ethnic' states, in fact.

Potential countries could be:
- Bukhara (see this map, and this one).
- Karakalpakstan (see also Khwarezm)
- Brahui (where the Brahui people live in Pakistan)
- Bactria
- Persia (where the ethnic Persians or Iranian people live; see this map)
- Parthia (an alternative option for an Persian area, propably with areas where Persian-speaking Afghan peoples live, so quite big)
- Hazaristan (in Afghanistan, for the Hazara people)
- Punjab (in Pakistan)
- Balochistan
- Sindh
- Turkmenistan (the ethnic area with border regions of Afghanistan etc.)
- other areas of Afghanistan, maybe (see this map)
- Waziristan
- Tajikistan (ethnic regions, so not necessarily the modern country, maybe with other Sogdanian areas)
- Uzbekistan (the same counts for this one)
- Hyrcania
- Kyrgyzstan (again; ethinc!)
- Kazachstan (ethnic!)
- East-Turkestan or Uyghuristan (see here and here)
- Crimea
- many Caucasus peoples having their own Kingdom/State/Republic/...
- Azerbaijan with Irania Azerbaijan
- Tatarstan (where the Tatars live(d))
- etc.
- etc.

These are all just options based on fantasy etc., so they may be very implausible for Medieval times.

Comment, propose, remark or create maps or flags, whatever you want!

(And yes, indeed, I misspelled 'posibility' in the thread's name...)
 
oh, and of course these states can be...
- republic
- kingdom
- shahdom
- caliphate
- emirate
- sultanate
- empire
- khanate
- khaganate
- duchy
- county
- principality

etc.

The bold ones are the most plauible names, I guess.
 
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