Possibility of a Union & Confederacy vs. Fascist Germany?

Hello, I've observed this board for quite some time, and I finally decided to become active.

I was looking through some suggestions here and there throughout the board, and I cam across an idea that I feel would be interesting, though I do believe somewhat that it may have

1. Been addressed before, and

2. Be near a level of ASB that would shock even Turtledove.

But, I am not too informed, and as such, I wanted to ask this.

Would it have been possible in any way, shape, or form that does not reach ASB, to have a USA & CSA (CSA does not have to be slavery, and it's doubtful they would have still kept it by the 1900s) somehow come together in an alliance to fight a Germany that was Fascist? (Germany does not have to be a Nazi-type, just a government that is Fascist.)
 
(CSA does not have to be slavery, and it's doubtful they would have still kept it by the 1900s)

The C.S.A.'s constitution makes it structurally impossible for them to outlaw slavery. The political culture will make it impossible, as at the end of the day the slave owners will control every aspect of the political system. Another thing will be the cultural attitudes the Confederacy will have towards slavery; almost all white children in the Confederacy will be taught that slavery is the natural condition of the black man and that slavery was ordained by God. The Confederacy will keep slavery until it is stopped by a foreign invader, or the Confederate government is overthrown by some kind of slave revolt.

Slavery was the entire reason for the C.S.A.'s existence, It will not give up the institution.
 
The C.S.A.'s constitution makes it structurally impossible for them to outlaw slavery. The political culture will make it impossible, as at the end of the day the slave owners will control every aspect of the political system. Another thing will be the cultural attitudes the Confederacy will have towards slavery; almost all white children in the Confederacy will be taught that slavery is the natural condition of the black man and that slavery was ordained by God. The Confederacy will keep slavery until it is stopped by a foreign invader, or the Confederate government is overthrown by some kind of slave revolt.

Slavery was the entire reason for the C.S.A.'s existence, It will not give up the institution.

Not necessarily. The Constitution of the Confederate States does pretty much exist soley to keep slavery alive, but that can be resolved. If views in the Confederacy change over time (which they inevitably will) to the point where slavery is seen as undesierable, there is a very simple method that most people overlook. Simply draw up a new Constitution. It's been done many, many times before. It would be a case of replacing the Articles of Confederation with the US Constitution. If there is enough support in the CSA, it will eventually happen.
 
Not necessarily. The Constitution of the Confederate States does pretty much exist soley to keep slavery alive, but that can be resolved. If views in the Confederacy change over time (which they inevitably will) to the point where slavery is seen as undesierable, there is a very simple method that most people overlook. Simply draw up a new Constitution. It's been done many, many times before. It would be a case of replacing the Articles of Confederation with the US Constitution. If there is enough support in the CSA, it will eventually happen.

And there will not be support in the CSA. How much changed in Southern culture from the end of the civil war until Eisenhower forced desegregation? Very little. My Mother's father was in oil exportation, so her family moved around a lot. She had the "privilege" of going to several different school districts in the South during desegregation. Several of her teachers defended slavery in front of classes that were half white and half black. The south only started to change after the federal government forced desegregation to happen.

Slavery was viewed as a honorable institution, several Slave owners viewed slavery as their Christian duty. As little sense as that sounds. It wasn't that different from Noblesse Oblige, and had the same success rate as well (I.e. the slave owners claimed some noble duty of looking out for those slaves who couldn't take care of themselves, while beating the crap out of every single one of them).

If you are thinking that slaver will become economically inviable as soil depletion happens, then you will be disappointed. Several southern states had already gone though soil depletion, and they had found ways to keep slavery viable. If the Confederacy controls any decent portion of the Mississippi river, then plantation slavery will remain viable. The topsoil in the Mississippi river Valley is two stories deep. Not even the most demanding cotton growing will deplete that topsoil. The rest of the Confederacy will find a way to keep slavery viable, wether it's though mining (the original slave job), or through some kind of repetitive factory job, they will find a way.
 
Hello, I've observed this board for quite some time, and I finally decided to become active.

I was looking through some suggestions here and there throughout the board, and I cam across an idea that I feel would be interesting, though I do believe somewhat that it may have

1. Been addressed before, and

2. Be near a level of ASB that would shock even Turtledove.

But, I am not too informed, and as such, I wanted to ask this.

Would it have been possible in any way, shape, or form that does not reach ASB, to have a USA & CSA (CSA does not have to be slavery, and it's doubtful they would have still kept it by the 1900s) somehow come together in an alliance to fight a Germany that was Fascist? (Germany does not have to be a Nazi-type, just a government that is Fascist.)


Nothing ASB about it. Lots of Southerners were anglophile, and most were racist, so it's entirely conceivable that they would enter WW2 after Pearl Harbour, assuming WW2 still happens on schedule.

FTM, it's perfectly possible for the Union and Confederacy to be allies in WW1. WIers tend to put them on opposite sides, but that's far from inevitable. Confederates would object to having their ships torpedoed just as much as Federals, and the Entente would be the principal market for their cotton, as for the Union's munitions etc.
 
This should be in Post-1900 as the CSA surviving requires a PoD in that period.

Also, the butterflies from it doing so may very likely lead to a situation where WW1 stays a European War.
 
I feel that having the US & the CS still at Dagger-point, 50~60 years after the end of the ACW is the real ASB scenario.
 
I feel that having the US & the CS still at Dagger-point, 50~60 years after the end of the ACW is the real ASB scenario.

There might be a small sequel, 1812-style, to settle outstanding border disputes, but I suspect that once they've got over the immediate trauma of losing, most northerners will be inclined to say "good riddance", and thank the Lord that the South's racial mess isn't their problem any more.
 
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