possibility check: a African American Nation inside USA ?

until beginn of the 1960s, USA had racial segregation,
African-American Civil Rights Movement destroyd this system in 1955-1968
But Wat If the politician push racial segregation a step further ?
an give the African-American economic and political self-sufficiency
under Federal laws and constitution of US, if the racial segregation is respected !

a Nation were African-American work in company's own by African-American
and have: educational institutions, judiciary, medical service, revenue authorities, run by African-American

Is this "US African American Nation" viably ?
 
Without a PoD in the 19th century it's pretty much ASB without the U.S. as we understand it having ceased to exist (IE through civil war or revolution, which is itself highly unlikely).

Their was a movement to create an 'African-American Nation', but it was both not popular among African Americans and those who did support it tended to be extremists.

Their's also the issue that outside the 'Black Belt' most of the South is either majority or plurality white.
 
Not in the mid-20th Century, no, but maybe if Lincoln is not assassianted, he sets aside a territory somewhere out west for freed slaves as an extension of his promise of a mule and 40 acres. Perhaps then, you could have a de facto black nation in North America.
 
You would not get a black nation on the North American continent let alone within the confines of the United States. Perhaps there would be a reservation established for them, but not a nation and as a state it would be subject to the same population influxes as any other.
 
I take it that the OP means that something like the Bantustans in South Africa could/would occur in the US sometime during segregation? That's ASB. Sections of the South were (and still are) majority black, and segregation ensured that most, if not all, of those blacks could never advance to anything higher than their current station in life, which was basically doing manual labor or menial jobs. Take away those low-class workers and suddenly the South faces a massive labor shortage.

That's also not to mention other blacks outside of the South, the where the American Bantustan would be, the logistics of moving most (if not all) blacks there and keeping them fed, housed, etc. and the opposition to it (from the black community, business & religious leaders, the more socially progressive crowd and maybe even government officials) that would make establishing it difficult, if not impossible.
 
i mean not a territory or reservation for African American like in South Africa,
but a parallel society !
with a administration, economic and political self-sufficiency for/by African American
under Federal laws and constitution of USA
 
i mean not a territory or reservation for African American like in South Africa,
but a parallel society !
with a administration, economic and political self-sufficiency for/by African American
under Federal laws and constitution of USA

The Consitution only allows for two types od Administrative division; States and Territories.

You can not split or merge parts of states without the consent of both houses of the Federal Congress and the consent of the states affected.

Not only will the states affected vehemently oppose it their would be next to no support on the Federal level.

As I said, it's ASB without an earlier PoD or some catastrophic event having occurred before.
 
The Consitution only allows for two types od Administrative division; States and Territories.

You can not split or merge parts of states without the consent of both houses of the Federal Congress and the consent of the states affected.

Not only will the states affected vehemently oppose it their would be next to no support on the Federal level.

As I said, it's ASB without an earlier PoD or some catastrophic event having occurred before.

so this idea has only little chance to work in a TL were confederation win the Civil war in 1865...
 
so this idea has only little chance to work in a TL were confederation win the Civil war in 1865...


Seeing as the CSA constitution was almost a carbon copy of the US constitution, the same hurdles apply.

However, an independent CSA which later amends it's constitution to allow the creation of a black homeland is somewhat plausible. That homeland having anywhere near the sovereignty you suggest is ASB.

Of course, you didn't ask about the CSA in your first post.
 
Short of a Soviet occupation that dismembers the United States to secure Soviet hegemony over the entire planet, this is implausible, and even before 1900, when U.S. leaders talked about removing ex-slaves from U.S. society, the implication always was that it would be to some place outside of areas then controlled by the U.S. Thus, such a nation would never have existed in the United States so long as the latter had any choice in the matter.
 

Ismail

Banned
In the 1920's and 30's the Comintern held the view (under the influence of Harry Haywood) that blacks formed a distinct nation from American whites, but this was ignore in the 1940's and repudiated in the 1950's-60's. Then you had the "Republic of New Afrika" types, but they were never influential and the view that blacks constituted a different nation from whites practically vanished after the 1970's.

Had the Confederacy still existed I don't quite know what would happen. It's worth noting that South Africa's bantustans were created due to outside pressure and because of the various tribes that could theoretically separate blacks from each other and thus allay united anti-apartheid activity. Blacks in the Confederacy would not have such distinctions, so that strategy and the justification that bantustans represented "natural" black states "united" via tribal affiliation wouldn't work. I also rather doubt the Confederates would be willing to spend tons of money in upkeep for reservations which would likely be seen as breeding grounds for anti-segregation activity anyway.
 

Warsie

Banned
I hope I am not necromancing this thread.

Their was a movement to create an 'African-American Nation', but it was both not popular among African Americans and those who did support it tended to be extremists.

I wouldn't say the movement was unpopular, black people in the United States have always considered themselves to be a separate nation than the white dominated society. Building a new STATE for that nation is what would have been less popular, and even then groups like the Nation of Islam and Black Panthers were popular in Black America (note: those groups advocated 'self determination for black americans' - and I cannot find the image with Black Panthers with guns and that sign - fudge)

Their's also the issue that outside the 'Black Belt' most of the South is either majority or plurality white.

Meaning this hypothetical nation would come out from either A. a communist revolution (or soviet invasion - what the people earlier posted), or B. an uprising akin to what happened in former Yugoslavia, e.g. in the 1960s black america rises up and the army fractures among racial lines and you see black militias in the south clearing out whites and vice-versa in the 'white' south - and the federal government is powerless as the other countries would lap up the hypocrisy of suppressing self-determination movements esp given the UN's 'decolonization' movements.

People here also forgot one thing. POD of the reconstruction being more thorough and longer, allowing a strong black middle class and economic self-determination making political self-determination easier. IF there's MORE black lawyers etc black america isnt as dependent on the whites, removing the economic slavery and shafting sharecroppers got.

African-American Civil Rights Movement destroyd this system in 1955-1968
But Wat If the politician push racial segregation a step further ?

White America is hypocritical and would have both A. suppressed black nationalism under the 'united states of america' excuse, and B. would have continued to go 'lol segregation and screw you we get the lions share'. Individual Southern states that were white dominated would not want to lose their power.....of course, with the POV of reconstruction being better and longer black america has a plurality of southern legislative offices and militias formed to prevent intimidation and manipulation, aka 'the black nation would stay way stronger'.

an give the African-American economic and political self-sufficiency
under Federal laws and constitution of US, if the racial segregation is respected !

The blacks would have to declare independence (and hopefully they get control of nuclear weapons somehow and hold the white south in a samson plan - and that's a longshot but hey)

At the most under the structure of the current US government they'd get a zone like the zone over Appalachia. I doubt the whites of that era would be happy with admitting 'Black Mississppi' 'Black Georgia' 'Black Alabama' etc, or in a worse case scenario commencing ethnic cleansing of both blacks and whites like the Treaty of Sevres (assuming it isnt done out of a war instead).

Is this "US African American Nation" viably ?

Yes. Black America has enough land in the black belt and enough knowledgeable professionals in order to get some sort of governance.

Not in the mid-20th Century, no, but maybe if Lincoln is not assassianted, he sets aside a territory somewhere out west for freed slaves as an extension of his promise of a mule and 40 acres. Perhaps then, you could have a de facto black nation in North America.

Most slaves were starting to be settled in lands the deposed Slavocracy abandoned until Lincoln was capped....so no.

I take it that the OP means that something like the Bantustans in South Africa could/would occur in the US sometime during segregation?

No, he's looking for something analogous to the Union Republics the Soviet Union had, only for Black America (and id presume other minority groups like Chicanos and Mormons)

Had the Confederacy still existed I don't quite know what would happen.

I'd assume a slave revolt a la Haiti would happen, eventually....[e.g. the slaves started rioting in Brazil and slavery was abolished as the ruling class realized they had no choice, either that or see their society destroyed]
 
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