Possibilities for a Richard of Conisburgh TL?

Well, if he doesn't get involved in the Southampton Plot, that would definitely help. Perhaps he is sent to France earlier, or he never goes to Denmark with Lord Scrope, thereby avoiding his connection with the,man who seems to have got him involved with it in the first place...
 
Well, if he doesn't get involved in the Southampton Plot, that would definitely help. Perhaps he is sent to France earlier, or he never goes to Denmark with Lord Scrope, thereby avoiding his connection with the,man who seems to have got him involved with it in the first place...
I believe Richard getting some sort of inheritnce from his father might be good PoD. What do you think was the probable relation between Henry V and Conisburgh? The King (Netflix) suggested that they had been good friends.
 
I believe Richard getting some sort of inheritnce from his father might be good PoD. What do you think was the probable relation between Henry V and Conisburgh? The King (Netflix) suggested that they had been good friends.
An inheritance would definitely help. And while Henry V and Richard may have been good friends as boys, they wouldn't have been for long. As long as Richard is Edward, Duke of York's heir, he's heir to the Mortimer claim to the throne, which is not good as far as Henry V, son of a usurper, is concerned.
 
An inheritance would definitely help. And while Henry V and Richard may have been good friends as boys, they wouldn't have been for long. As long as Richard is Edward, Duke of York's heir, he's heir to the Mortimer claim to the throne, which is not good as far as Henry V, son of a usurper, is concerned.
His son, Richard was the heir to the Mortimer claim through his mother so while Henry might see his son with guarded looks, he would be unlikely to bear any ill-will towards the family, especially as none of the Yorkists have rebelled/caused trouble.....yet (I'm assuming the southampton plot doesn't happen in my presumptive TL)
 
An inheritance would definitely help. And while Henry V and Richard may have been good friends as boys, they wouldn't have been for long. As long as Richard is Edward, Duke of York's heir, he's heir to the Mortimer claim to the throne, which is not good as far as Henry V, son of a usurper, is concerned.
But Sir Edmund Mortimer, the actual claimant, was entirely loyal to Henry V. (The Mortimer who was captured in Wales, married Glendwyr's daughter, and revolted in company with the Percies was Edmund's uncle, also Edmund; Edmund was then only 14.) Henry made him a Knight of the Bath, restored his estates, and relied on him in councils and ceremonies. Mortimer was even appointed to the Regency Council for Henry VI. (So he outlived Henry V; therefore, during Henry's life, the Yorks came after Mortimer on that claim, which Mortimer himself ignored.) It was Mortimer who exposed the Southampton Plot to Henry after Conisburgh approached him.

(Now there's a PoD opportunity. Suppose Edmund tells Conisburgh "You're a loony!" And talks him into joining Edmund in revealing the Plot. That would avert Conisburgh's execution. Then he might inherit the dukedom when his elder brother is killed at Agincourt. He might also beget additional children, so that the House of York is much more numerous. I.e. Richard has two or three younger brothers and several brothers-in-law besides the Nevilles.)
 
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But Sir Edmund Mortimer, the actual claimant, was entirely loyal to Henry V. (The Mortimer who was captured in Wales, married Glendwyr's daughter, and revolted in company with the Percies was Edmund's uncle, also Edmund; Edmund was then only 14.) Henry made him a Knight of the Bath, restored his estates, and relied on him in councils and ceremonies. Mortimer was even appointed to the Regency Council for Henry VI. It was Mortimer who exposed the Southampton Plot to Henry after Conisburgh approached him.

(Now there's a PoD opportunity. Suppose Edmund tells Conisburgh "You're a loony!" And talks him into joining Edmund in revealing the Plot. That would avert Conisburgh's execution. Then he might inherit the dukedom when his elder brother is killed at Agincourt. He might also beget additional children, so that the House of York is much more numerous. I.e. Richard has two or three younger brothers and several brothers-in-law besides the Nevilles.)
Thank you for the additional info and the PoD suggestion 😄 I'll look into it a bit more
 
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But Sir Edmund Mortimer, the actual claimant, was entirely loyal to Henry V. (The Mortimer who was captured in Wales, married Glendwyr's daughter, and revolted in company with the Percies was Edmund's uncle, also Edmund; Edmund was then only 14.) Henry made him a Knight of the Bath, restored his estates, and relied on him in councils and ceremonies. Mortimer was even appointed to the Regency Council for Henry VI. (So he outlived Henry V; therefore, during Henry's life, the Yorks came after Mortimer on that claim, which Mortimer himself ignored.) It was Mortimer who exposed the Southampton Plot to Henry after Conisburgh approached him.

(Now there's a PoD opportunity. Suppose Edmund tells Conisburgh "You're a loony!" And talks him into joining Edmund in revealing the Plot. That would avert Conisburgh's execution. Then he might inherit the dukedom when his elder brother is killed at Agincourt. He might also beget additional children, so that the House of York is much more numerous. I.e. Richard has two or three younger brothers and several brothers-in-law besides the Nevilles.)
If....if we take this PoD, do you think that Mortimer might have some children of his own ?
 
If....if we take this PoD, do you think that Mortimer might have some children of his own ?
Possibly, though OTL he was married for ten years with no children, which suggests that either he or his wife Anne Stafford was infertile. Anne outlived him by seven years and had two children by her second husband, the Duke of Exeter, so probably Edmund.

In which case Conisburgh, now the Duke of York, will be the "Yorkist claimant" circa 1450. He would then be 65. Or he might assert himself sooner. He would be a major player in English politics throughout the 1420s, whereas the younger Richard had to wait for his majority in 1432. If as OTL, Mortimer and Henry's two brothers die without issue (and his two sisters, who married continental princes, also have no issue as OTL), then Conisburgh's claim becomes very cogent and IMHO he would assert it. At the very least, he would insist on being recognized as Henry's heir presumptive.

Then if as OTL Henry goes mad... Conisburgh could be effectively Lord Protector, Having charge of Henry, he could insure that Henry never marries, or is kept away from his wife, even if he regains his sanity. Or the paternity of any royal children could be questioned.

Of course, now that I think about it, it's unlikely that Conisburgh lives that long; he probably dies around 1440, aged 55. That would leave young Richard in a position similar to OTL, but IMO much stronger.
 
Possibly, though OTL he was married for ten years with no children, which suggests that either he or his wife Anne Stafford was infertile. Anne outlived him by seven years and had two children by her second husband, the Duke of Exeter, so probably Edmund.

In which case Conisburgh, now the Duke of York, will be the "Yorkist claimant" circa 1450. He would then be 65. Or he might assert himself sooner. He would be a major player in English politics throughout the 1420s, whereas the younger Richard had to wait for his majority in 1432. If as OTL, Mortimer and Henry's two brothers die without issue (and his two sisters, who married continental princes, also have no issue as OTL), then Conisburgh's claim becomes very cogent and IMHO he would assert it. At the very least, he would insist on being recognized as Henry's heir presumptive.

Then if as OTL Henry goes mad... Conisburgh could be effectively Lord Protector, Having charge of Henry, he could insure that Henry never marries, or is kept away from his wife, even if he regains his sanity. Or the paternity of any royal children could be questioned.

Of course, now that I think about it, it's unlikely that Conisburgh lives that long; he probably dies around 1440, aged 55. That would leave young Richard in a position similar to OTL, but IMO much stronger.
The effort put into this is....wow. Do people here usually leave such detailed answers?

The lancastrian claim would go to Blanche,electress palatine unless one of her brothers has a child.
I don't think that anyone would entertain her descendants as monarch tho, so Conisburgh would be in a strong position as you have already said.
His son's claim was stronger than the lancastrian's IMO
 
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