Portugal's Carnation Revolution Flop

WI Portugal's Carnation Revolution, somehow, flops (or is entirely removed)? How the country would transition to democracy and CEE membership? What would be impacts on the then colonies?

Would Portugal witness a kind of gradual and negotiated transition, akin to Spain or a general collapse was just waiting in the wings?
 
WI Portugal's Carnation Revolution, somehow, flops (or is entirely removed)? How the country would transition to democracy and CEE membership? What would be impacts on the then colonies?

Would Portugal witness a kind of gradual and negotiated transition, akin to Spain or a general collapse was just waiting in the wings?

The government knew of the plan of the MFA and just accepted their fate. At that point the people and even the politicians didn't had the stomach to allow the Estado Novo to continue, Caetano had tried to resign three times and it seemed that the colonial war would never end. If they defeat the Carnation, most likely they are toppled on another uprising a bit later. There was already a rising earlier on 1974 that got overshadowed by the carnation so the carnation revolution most likely ends overshadowed by this other rising that follows on this timeline.

If for some reason Caetano manage to pass his reforms (near ASB), the government reforms and a slow process of democratization ends with the People' national union being the dominant party between many, but that would require a lot of other PoDs.

@Lusitania is a expert I always calls to comment on the subject.
 
If the April 21st coup fails, there will be another attempt. And if that fails too there will be another, and another, and another until one finally succeeds. A gradual transition to democracy was impossible by 1974, you can it with an earlier PoD, but at that time the Portuguese were really fed up with the regime and the colonial war. The communist party was huge (at least in some parts of the country), there was no shortage of other left-wing militant movements, and a significant portion of the military had been converted.

At the same time, hardline figures were largely in control of the Estado Novo's hierarchy. It's unclear wether Caetano actually had any power left. President Américo Thomaz seemed to be pulling the strings a lot of the times, and ultra-right generals such as Kaúlza de Arriaga had become more prominent after the failed 1961 coup.
 
Btw, Caetano is pretty much the Portuguese Gorbachev is many ways, it's very hard to have him succeed. If he liberalizes the country, the opposition will naturally start to show up, and that will cause the hardliners to panic.
 
Btw, Caetano is pretty much the Portuguese Gorbachev is many ways, it's very hard to have him succeed. If he liberalizes the country, the opposition will naturally start to show up, and that will cause the hardliners to panic.

Couldn't have said it better. Caetano is like Gorbachov or Louis XVI, the reformer that got sunk for failing to properly liberalize a long standing reactionary regime.
 

Lusitania

Donor
hm, in researching the estado novo for my own TL (if interested see Lusophone in signature) I was intrigued by the 1965-1974 period where Caetano had brought in several major enhancements to both the social and economic environment of the country. He had even loosened some of the political controls that had existed under Salazar allowing for several more moderate opposition figures such as Sa Carneiro to emerge. Still there were those within the National Union Party who were more conservative and wanted them stopped or reversed. Those who say the they accepted their fate are oversimplifying it. There was a lot of sides to this.

For the Estado Novo to of been capable of lasting another decade or more the government would of needed to of been more hardline in their dealing with the rumbling and discontent of the military and the aborted uprising in 1972. If the government had punished the munity instead of sending them to their barracks and followed up with a more thorough 'cleaning' of the military officers it might of had a better chance of lasting longer.

As Joao97 and others have mentioned the POD to continue the Estado Novo would of been much sooner. Even a 1950-1960 reforms and modernization (Salazar dying or being incapacitated) could allowed someone like Caetano to emerged that liberalized the economy and modernized the country. What China and even Vietnam has shown us is that people are not completely against Dictatorship. If it can provide economic and security plus modernize the country it could of continued. The huge problem was the colonial war and its drain on both government expenditure and loss of lives.

So in summary with a POD of 1972 onward Estado Novo could of continued on for another 5-10 years but surveillance and security becomes even more oppressive. Spain going democratic would of been another problem.
 
The latest relatively safe POD for a democratization without a revolution would have been while the Liberal Wing (regime reformers) was still in Parliament (1960's, before 1973), but this still requires Caetano replacing all the hardliners (the Ultras) (Américo Tomás, Kaúlza de Arriaga, etc). A failed 1974 Carnation Revolution would simply be succeeded by a better coordinated revolution.
There was no support for the regime outside of the far-right at this point (and most of the population was against the dictatorship since the end of the world war 2) - the only thing keeping it during the 1950's and 1960's was the security apparatus (secret police, the police, most the career officers in the Armed Forces), and some acquiescence from parts of the right that were expecting a transition to a democracy but avoiding the problems of the first republic. As the fear of the anti-clericalism faded, the economy lagged behind western Europe and the colonial war disrupted the lives of many young people, even that large minority support disappeared and reached the point where everyone from conservatives (in the European sense) to their left was against the regime.
 
hm, in researching the estado novo for my own TL (if interested see Lusophone in signature) I was intrigued by the 1965-1974 period where Caetano had brought in several major enhancements to both the social and economic environment of the country. He had even loosened some of the political controls that had existed under Salazar allowing for several more moderate opposition figures such as Sa Carneiro to emerge. Still there were those within the National Union Party who were more conservative and wanted them stopped or reversed. Those who say the they accepted their fate are oversimplifying it. There was a lot of sides to this.

For the Estado Novo to of been capable of lasting another decade or more the government would of needed to of been more hardline in their dealing with the rumbling and discontent of the military and the aborted uprising in 1972. If the government had punished the munity instead of sending them to their barracks and followed up with a more thorough 'cleaning' of the military officers it might of had a better chance of lasting longer.

As Joao97 and others have mentioned the POD to continue the Estado Novo would of been much sooner. Even a 1950-1960 reforms and modernization (Salazar dying or being incapacitated) could allowed someone like Caetano to emerged that liberalized the economy and modernized the country. What China and even Vietnam has shown us is that people are not completely against Dictatorship. If it can provide economic and security plus modernize the country it could of continued. The huge problem was the colonial war and its drain on both government expenditure and loss of lives.

So in summary with a POD of 1972 onward Estado Novo could of continued on for another 5-10 years but surveillance and security becomes even more oppressive. Spain going democratic would of been another problem.

Hum... I hadn't thought of Portugal going right-wing North Korea for the rest of deace. It is an interesting one indeed, and it may very well be possible if the crack down of political dissent is really hard.

But there are some feasibility issues. Military purges get harder to execute the further you go down the ranks. While you only have a handful of generals in your country and that makes it rather easy to eliminate all of those who are anti-government, it's unlikely you could do the exact same thing with all anti-government majors and captains. And since the 1974 revolutionaries came all from the lower ranks, I think it would be rather difficult to keep something like this from happening.

That said, I do think that, with several rounds of purging, violent crackdown of two or so major uprisings and spreading fear among the populace, it should be possible to stabilize the situation in the mainland.

The colonies are a different story, though. I'm pretty sure that the Portuguese forces stationed in Angola, Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau were by far the most embittered against the government (they obviously had the most reasons to be). A lot of revolting officers in 1974 came from their. I very much doubt the efficacy of any purge conducted in the colonies.

Could we maybe see a coup (by Portuguese forces) against the Estado Novo happening in Luanda instead of Lisbon ITTL?
 

Lusitania

Donor
Hum... I hadn't thought of Portugal going right-wing North Korea for the rest of deace. It is an interesting one indeed, and it may very well be possible if the crack down of political dissent is really hard.

But there are some feasibility issues. Military purges get harder to execute the further you go down the ranks. While you only have a handful of generals in your country and that makes it rather easy to eliminate all of those who are anti-government, it's unlikely you could do the exact same thing with all anti-government majors and captains. And since the 1974 revolutionaries came all from the lower ranks, I think it would be rather difficult to keep something like this from happening.

That said, I do think that, with several rounds of purging, violent crackdown of two or so major uprisings and spreading fear among the populace, it should be possible to stabilize the situation in the mainland.

The colonies are a different story, though. I'm pretty sure that the Portuguese forces stationed in Angola, Mozambique and Guinea-Bissau were by far the most embittered against the government (they obviously had the most reasons to be). A lot of revolting officers in 1974 came from their. I very much doubt the efficacy of any purge conducted in the colonies.

Could we maybe see a coup (by Portuguese forces) against the Estado Novo happening in Luanda instead of Lisbon ITTL?

Hard. There were too many obstacles in the estado novo way. From what I read, the 72 attempted coup was the one that showed the officers it was possible. A very strong show there could of made future attempts more hesitant and 74 might not of happen.

Guinea was lost but rest was controlled overseas. But while military and security needed to be boosted the economy and social conditions of both white and Africans in rest needed to be improved. But Portugal not able to do a North Korea and establish that type of control. It never had it and be AsB to try in 1970s.
 
Hard. There were too many obstacles in the estado novo way. From what I read, the 72 attempted coup was the one that showed the officers it was possible. A very strong show there could of made future attempts more hesitant and 74 might not of happen.

Guinea was lost but rest was controlled overseas. But while military and security needed to be boosted the economy and social conditions of both white and Africans in rest needed to be improved. But Portugal not able to do a North Korea and establish that type of control. It never had it and be AsB to try in 1970s.

How bad was the situation of Guinea? Couldn't they just deploy more troops there? I'm really asking out of innocence because I don't know much about the overseas war.
 

Lusitania

Donor
How bad was the situation of Guinea? Couldn't they just deploy more troops there? I'm really asking out of innocence because I don't know much about the overseas war.
Rebels controlled 3/4 and had actually declared independence. No the Portuguese in 1974 controlled parts of coast and major cities that’s it.
 
Guinea-Bissau was called "Portugal's Vietnam" for a reason. The country's dense jungles favoured the PAIGC's guerilla tactics. Also, it was a small enclave surrounded by larger anti-colonialist states.
 

Lusitania

Donor
The idea of no carnation revolt would be better to in the early 1950s Salazar is deposed but democracy is not brought in on fear on communism. Economic reforms, educational reforms and most importantly incorporate of Non Europeans into single country. During 1960s when the “rebellion” occur it is headed by small segment of Africans and majority either accept or support continued Portuguese involvement.

By 1970 Portuguese economic growth has reached 200-300% of 1950 level providing jobs, education opportunities and security to majority of population.

Higher standard of living for Portuguese Africans is in clear contrast with Africans living around Portuguese territory. A fact that shows value of being together with Portuguese. 1970s and 1980s several weaker African neighbors governments are overthrow and friendly Portuguese governments are established.
 
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