Portugal sells some of its colonies

I'm thinking, after or during the 1974 revolution, could something happen so that they decide to sell off minor colonies like Cape Verde, Sao Tome or better yet, the valuable Cabinda?

I mean, the country was in turmoil and they couldn't keep them, so instead of just letting them go try and make some money off them.

Would it have been politically viable by then?
 

Lusitania

Donor
I'm thinking, after or during the 1974 revolution, could something happen so that they decide to sell off minor colonies like Cape Verde, Sao Tome or better yet, the valuable Cabinda?

I mean, the country was in turmoil and they couldn't keep them, so instead of just letting them go try and make some money off them.

Would it have been politically viable by then?


Who would buy them? The local people in all these areas were clamoring for self rule (independence). The days of countries selling off their colonies was long gone. The UN and especially US /Western Europe would demand independence If a country did not wish to administer a region.

On different note this is why Gibraltar will never be Spanish as long as the people of Gibraltar are against it.

On different note Egypt just sold (gave) some uninhabited island to Saudi Arabia. But that never would happen if it was populated.
 
Who would buy them? The local people in all these areas were clamoring for self rule (independence). The days of countries selling off their colonies was long gone. The UN and especially US /Western Europe would demand independence If a country did not wish to administer a region.
Congo might buy Cabinda and Indonesia East Timor
 

Lusitania

Donor
Congo might buy Cabinda and Indonesia East Timor

They might have territorial aspirations. Indonesia invaded Portuguese Timor soon after Portuguese withdrawal anyway. They and especially the people of East Timor paid a heavy price over the next 20 years of fighting and repression that far surpassed anything that happen during Portuguese rule.

As for Cabinda it would result in war with Angola which feels it is an integral part of country. Heck there currently is still a independence group fighting Angola.

So sorry no not possible.
 
Who would buy them? The local people in all these areas were clamoring for self rule (independence). The days of countries selling off their colonies was long gone. The UN and especially US /Western Europe would demand independence If a country did not wish to administer a region.

On different note this is why Gibraltar will never be Spanish as long as the people of Gibraltar are against it.

On different note Egypt just sold (gave) some uninhabited island to Saudi Arabia. But that never would happen if it was populated.

Would a population transfer like the British did in Diego Garcia only a few years earlier ruffle many feathers?
 

Lusitania

Donor
Angola was stuck in civil war between UNITA and MPLA until 2002

Yes but without Cabinda oil revenue the war would of changed. No way Angola would of agreed to it even 10-30 years later. Plus they would of been of opinion if we can have it neither can u and would of supported Cabinda own independence themselves. Plus Europe would of condemned the occupation of Cabinda. Heck would of made more sense for Portugal to keep Cabinda themselves.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Would a population transfer like the British did in Diego Garcia only a few years earlier ruffle many feathers?

Population transfer of thousands might work when they were not original people but immigrants themselves. But not hundred of thousands of people who would trace their link to the region for hundreds of years.
 
By 1974 I think the concept of selling peoples is not acceptable, but earlier?

After the British Ultimatum and Portugal becoming a Republic would circumstances have them sell off colonies to the British, Germans and/or French? It is my understanding that before the Great War the British and Germans floated a partitioning of Spanish colonies, would a similar notion arise had it occurred once Spain is no longer on the map? I think the British want Macao and everything in India, the Germans would want Angola to push closer the linking SWA and Kamerun, or at least building upon SWA, there are some islands off Kamerun the Germans likely want but France might like, Mozambique appeals equally to the French and British, etc. In a no Great War scenario it likely strengthens the colonial system and deepens the hold of three peer Great Powers in Africa. Or post Great War that puts these colonies on the table for whatever alternative ending and divvying of spoils one imagines. To the extent one likes to re-imagine the colonial system I think such change needs to happen before the 1920s if a war and maybe the 1940s without?
 
Population transfer of thousands might work when they were not original people but immigrants themselves. But not hundred of thousands of people who would trace their link to the region for hundreds of years.

:confused:
Yes, you're right. We're talking about 80'000, 280'000 for Sao Tome and Cape Verde.
I couldn't exact figures for 1974 Cabinda, but it's quoted at 150'000 in 1988.
 
By 1974 I think the concept of selling peoples is not acceptable, but earlier?

After the British Ultimatum and Portugal becoming a Republic would circumstances have them sell off colonies to the British, Germans and/or French? It is my understanding that before the Great War the British and Germans floated a partitioning of Spanish colonies, would a similar notion arise had it occurred once Spain is no longer on the map? I think the British want Macao and everything in India, the Germans would want Angola to push closer the linking SWA and Kamerun, or at least building upon SWA, there are some islands off Kamerun the Germans likely want but France might like, Mozambique appeals equally to the French and British, etc. In a no Great War scenario it likely strengthens the colonial system and deepens the hold of three peer Great Powers in Africa. Or post Great War that puts these colonies on the table for whatever alternative ending and divvying of spoils one imagines. To the extent one likes to re-imagine the colonial system I think such change needs to happen before the 1920s if a war and maybe the 1940s without?

Wouldn't the result be the same? Independence in the 2nd half of the 20th century, whoever owns them?

Unless we're talking also about earlier demographic changes (unpleasant concept), but that would have to be post-1950 on account of malaria.
 

Lusitania

Donor
They didn't condemn the Indonesian annexation of East Timor or the Congolese intervention in Angola and France was heavily backing Mobutu until after the Rwandan genocide


Yes but those did not have oil. Plus Australia condemned it. You have to remember is that if Indonesia invaded and were welcomed with open arms by majority of people like in Portuguese India it was accepted but if you start suppressing people and fighting guerrilha war then that gets noticed.
 
Yes but those did not have oil.
Congo was a western ally and we are talking about Portugal selling the colony to Congo not a Congolese annexation of still Portuguese Cabinda
Plus Australia condemned it.
They didn't put sanctions or take any military action against Indonesia

but if you start suppressing people and fighting guerrilha war then that gets noticed.
There are numerous insurgencies around the world ,I doubt the west will care especially given there won't any protests or people lighting themselves on fire over it
 
They didn't condemn the Indonesian annexation of East Timor or the Congolese intervention in Angola and France was heavily backing Mobutu until after the Rwandan genocide

Facts are different from perception.
First of all, Indonesia wasn't a western country clinging to a remote colony (it was an asian one making one next door, but let's move on). Secondly, there was a founded concern that East Timor was going communist, so another reason to look away. Third, Australia worked out an advantageous agreement with Indonesia about oil and gas (the offshore field was returned to East Timor these very days).
 
Wouldn't the result be the same? Independence in the 2nd half of the 20th century, whoever owns them?

Unless we're talking also about earlier demographic changes (unpleasant concept), but that would have to be post-1950 on account of malaria.

I would assume that the background is a more surviving and future for colonies here, otherwise selling them in 1974 changes nothing for any of the remaining colonial powers. So in a world without the Great War or one where it ends such as to keep Germany a colonial power, avoiding the Second World War you have greater traction for Europeans holding on to and then developing colonies. I am pondering this in where Germany stung by the war time propaganda gives more emphasis to developing its colonies, the motivation being earning respect for better metrics, more schools, more roads, lower infant mortality, etc., a take on the Cold War battle to show off the benefits of siding with "us", "hearts and minds" on the global stage. Oddly I have German colonies even less actually colonized (as I think they were and would be), the Germans on the ground being fewer and more directly employed to develop the locals, the infrastructure and so on. Colonialism is still a shit deal for most of the world and I am not trying to paint it is better, but I think it is a logical and possible alternative, softening the process where colonialism likely lasts at least a generation longer. It is ironic to me that the Germans might have left a better legacy precisely because they had such a horrid one.
 
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