Population density equivalents: Italy and Japan.

yes of course one can hope, assuming Italy can solve its economic/political issues

Nowadays? Hell no! the area is a sinkhole!

But what I'm talking about (see some of my previous posts for reference) is a surviving Rome scenario, the mere fact the the Mediterranean trade network survives means that the short distance from "Tunisia" to south Italy keeps the area (relatively) prosperous.
 
Nowadays? Hell no! the area is a sinkhole!

But what I'm talking about (see some of my previous posts for reference) is a surviving Rome scenario, the mere fact the the Mediterranean trade network survives means that the short distance from "Tunisia" to south Italy keeps the area (relatively) prosperous.
That yes, however keeping the forests there would help greatly, it would stop soil erosion and keep the area more hospitable, the southern toe and heel of Italy has had this problem for along time. Save the forest and you can have the population reach Japan's level of pop. I think you would need southern Italy to be much more mountainous almost like a continuation of the Atlas Mountains, what I am saying is the fewer people in that part of Italy the better. You end up concentrating the population in the most fertile and environmentally sustainable regions of Italy that could take a massive population growth like that of Japan. You need Rome to become the Tokyo of Italy, you need at least 40-50% of the population in a Greater Rome. Given the way things are at least a third to 40% to the North and half of what's left to Sardinia and Sicily. The remainder in the southern rest.
 
Sorry I did not know that I apologize, but southern Italy is not the best for large population growth

This is largely true. It is also mostly mountainous or hilly. But its agriculture is historically very productive, despite the real soil erosion problems you noted above.
 
Venetians would be surprised to learn they live in a "dry and arid" climate.
The Japanese would be surprised to hear someone say Venice wasn't. Venice gets ~750mm of rain a year, Tokyo gets ~1530mm a year. The wettest parts of Italy are on par with the driest parts of Japan.
 
The Japanese would be surprised to hear someone say Venice wasn't. Venice gets ~750mm of rain a year, Tokyo gets ~1530mm a year. The wettest parts of Italy are on par with the driest parts of Japan.

The fact that Japan is wetter than Northern Italy does not make its climate dry or arid.
 
It does if we're comparing it to Japan and relative carrying capacities.

Very good point. Of course, this Italy (like japan otl) will be heavily dependent on food imports, but I wonder how this affects their growing capacity (considering that otl south Italy's agriculture was very productive otl, the crop differences may factor in a lot, wheat takes a shit ton less water to grow than rice)
 
Very good point. Of course, this Italy (like japan otl) will be heavily dependent on food imports, but I wonder how this affects their growing capacity (considering that otl south Italy's agriculture was very productive otl, the crop differences may factor in a lot, wheat takes a shit ton less water to grow than rice)

It's worth noting that, while Italian agriculture is still quite productive, Italy imports food now IOTL.
 
Can't that be blamed in large part on the nature of a decent part of Italian agriculture? A lot of luxury products, not really high quantity?
That is part of it I believe. Although most of the arable land actually produces cereals I think. And pastures of course. We have lots of that.
 
This is largely true. It is also mostly mountainous or hilly. But its agriculture is historically very productive, despite the real soil erosion problems you noted above.
That is because of the large amounts of immigration and now days modern agricultural and environmental practices. Look my father worked for the Italian Community Center in Milwaukee Wisconsin. One of the major reasons why they came was because of the poor farming prospects.

The 1870s were followed by the greatest surge of immigration, which occurred in the period between 1880 and 1920 and brought more than 4 million Italians to America.[8] About 84% of the Italian immigrants came from Southern Italy and Sicily. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Americans

This is why Italy does not have a population equal to Japan, politics and poor economic/farming prospects
 
That is because of the large amounts of immigration and now days modern agricultural and environmental practices. Look my father worked for the Italian Community Center in Milwaukee Wisconsin. One of the major reasons why they came was because of the poor farming prospects.

The 1870s were followed by the greatest surge of immigration, which occurred in the period between 1880 and 1920 and brought more than 4 million Italians to America.[8] About 84% of the Italian immigrants came from Southern Italy and Sicily. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Americans

This is why Italy does not have a population equal to Japan, politics and poor economic/farming prospects

Very true. Land management and ownership regimes seem to have been more relevant than inherent land productivity, but I suspect that population growth in Italy at the time surpassed what the local food production could support. The reports also point to a stunning degree of misery in the countryside, primarily but not exclusively in the South.
 
Very true. Land management and ownership regimes seem to have been more relevant than inherent land productivity, but I suspect that population growth in Italy at the time surpassed what the local food production could support. The reports also point to a stunning degree of misery in the countryside, primarily but not exclusively in the South.

In this ttl world, the agricultural prospects will be a bit better, but not too much.

However, considering the survivability of the Mediterranean trading network, and south Italy (I'm talking mostly about the apulian plain here, but Naples and Sicily also apply somewhat) being in a prime spot, the area being flat makes it a prime candidate for a Taranto-Bari-Brisindi-Lecce conurbation. considering this italy wouldn't be self-sufficient in food anyway, I'm pretty such south Italy's prospects will be quite a bit better in this alt world, except for the farmers. They will still have it a bit rough.
 
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