Pop Culture What if?: What if there was no Tolkien?

This is not the first time that this question has been brought up on these forums. Using google search, I found several threads that discussed the implications for pop culture and specifically the fantasy genre if Tolkien had died? The general consensus seemed to be that there would have been no major impact and some other author would have filled the vacuum and things would have proceeded apace. I think there is some truth to that, but I don't think it is quite so simple. Pardon me while I ramble for several paragraphs.

How much of an impact did Tolkien have? Lord of the Rings was not the first epic fantasy by a long shot, but it was the codifier, so much so that it set the direction, for better or worse, for fantasy through the next fifty years and beyond.

First of all, it brought fantasy into the mainstream. Fantasy stories were always popular, but relatively niche. For a number of reasons it appealed to the counter-culture in the decades immediately after its publication. Additionally, despite its density and dry presentation, LotR's themes of good vs evil, tradition, mythic heroes and supernatural forces, anti-war, etc, etc, appealed to readers basic sensibilities. So, interest in fantasy grew exponentially and the market exploded. It was this excitement which lead to the creation and success of DnD and other RPGs and their subsequent impact on the perception of fantasy and upon authors and creators of the genre for decades.

Secondly, books and stories that had been popular long before but now were obscure and forgotten were dredged up for republication (e.g. Ballantine Adult Fantasy) to feed the market for fantasy hungry readers, allowing their rediscovery and preventing their fall into complete obscurity.

Thirdly, loads of new fantasy arrived. Some of it was original (Earthsea, Witch World) and was bought and pushed to fill the market. Others were shameless clones (Shannara, Iron Tower). Either way, it was everywhere and dozens of fantasy author's careers were launched. The pervasiveness of the tropes Tolkien popularized grew to the point of being overwhelming. Epic high fantasy became the new standard.

Fourth, we saw the revival of sword and sorcery and other darker and/or weirder fantasy genres as a counter-reaction to Tolkien's influence. Howard, Lovecraft, Peake were rediscovered, Jack Vance and Fritz Leiber got their second wind, and Moorcock and Karl Wagner became huge influences as well. A great deal of this was directly in answer to Tolkien. Hell, it continues to this day. A Song of Ice and Fire was partially written as a counter to Lord of the Rings imitators.

There's a bunch more ripple effects (look at the movies and their impact, for example), but I'm not going to belabor it. Moving on, let's say Tolkien had died in the trenches and had never written The Hobbit or LotR. What other fantasy author or book really fit the bill to fill that vacuum? Out of Tolkien's contemporaries, both Peake and Eddison's works were more strange and esoteric and morally ambiguous. Poul Anderson's works were short and tragic. Fletcher Pratt's novels were dry, not especially well written, and also morally ambiguous. Leiber and Vance were not very prolific at that time. There was no real work of that time with similar themes or relative accessibility that I see catching on as Lord of the Rings did. So no fantasy explosion.

And if there is no big fantasy explosion, then what happens? Let's say that Andre Norton and Ursula LeGuin may never achieve recognition for their fantasy works. Moorcock has no Tolkien to rebel against and New Age fantasy does not become his bread and butter; instead he focuses on writing alternate history and weird spy fiction as a protest against imperialism and Ian Fleming instead. All of the obscure and forgotten fantasy of yore remains obscure and forgotten and is not republished until the 2000s. As a result of all this, DnD never materializes and SciFi rpgs or wargaming fill its place instead. Fantasy remains a niche genre that goes undeveloped for several more decades. And so on and so forth.

For the most part this is pure speculation, but I think it's an interesting avenue of thought. I have actually had some interest in incorporating this into a pop culture timeline that's been rolling around in my head. What do you guys think?
 
If you want to get a sense of how the fantasy literature of late twentieth century might have evolved in the absence of Tolkien, take a look at the many elf-free fantasy films that were made in that period. Indeed, it is not until 1988 that we get a fantasy film ("Willow") that could not have been made in a Hobbitless universe.
 
If you want to get a sense of how the fantasy literature of late twentieth century might have evolved in the absence of Tolkien, take a look at the many elf-free fantasy films that were made in that period. Indeed, it is not until 1988 that we get a fantasy film ("Willow") that could not have been made in a Hobbitless universe.

Thanks for the input. Based on that, I'm envisioning a world where Ray Harryhausen-esque adventure films underwent a creative renaissance (maybe even merged with Sword and Sorcery) and remained popular through the 90s.
 
Tolkien was a leading fantasy author and meticulous in his universe creation but the market for escapist fiction was there and some other would have filled it. I do not particularly detect his influence on Thomas Burnett Swann, Lloyd Alexander, Nicholas Stuart Gray or Ursula LeGuin, all of whom were writing by the advent of the counterculture.

Might have been less of a specific genre though -authors could have dipped in and out. Oscar Wilde, Mark Twain, Kipling, H.G. Wells, John Buchan, J.B. Priestley all wrote some fantasy and/or science fiction as well as more "conventional" fiction. Likewise Mikhail Bulgakov and Kingsley Amis
 
I previously mention how fairy tales would ended up dominating more fiction and still being the main source for fantasy worlds(as tolkien based a lot of this work in Grimm bros ones), but be more diversed, as tell before, elfs would be more heterogenous in each world and less 'magical upitty anglo-saxons', the main elf would be the christmas one for a while, dwarves still miners would not be small scottish and so on.

In general CS LEWIS is butterfly away, maybe Asimov would rule invictus and the literature being more sci-fi based? as someone make a timelne of LOTR as a tragicomedy writed by George Macdonald Fraser, maybe fantasy as the OP mentioned would be more moral ambigous full with anti heroes and tragicomical full of black humour?
 
Tolkien was a leading fantasy author and meticulous in his universe creation but the market for escapist fiction was there and some other would have filled it. I do not particularly detect his influence on Thomas Burnett Swann, Lloyd Alexander, Nicholas Stuart Gray or Ursula LeGuin, all of whom were writing by the advent of the counterculture.

Might have been less of a specific genre though -authors could have dipped in and out. Oscar Wilde, Mark Twain, Kipling, H.G. Wells, John Buchan, J.B. Priestley all wrote some fantasy and/or science fiction as well as more "conventional" fiction. Likewise Mikhail Bulgakov and Kingsley Amis

I agree that there was a strong demand, I just wonder whether any of LotR's contemporaries would have had the same broad appeal and accessibility to really tap into that demand and launch fantasy into the mainstream in the same way. Out of the ones you named, I would give LeGuin and Alexander the best chance; they both had the talent to write readily entertaining yet thoughtful stories. Another possibility that came to mind would be TH White and maybe Poul Anderson. If Earthsea, Prydain, or The Once and Future King were to fill the historical role that LotR filled for the fantasy genre, the genre would be radically altered.

I previously mention how fairy tales would ended up dominating more fiction and still being the main source for fantasy worlds(as tolkien based a lot of this work in Grimm bros ones), but be more diversed, as tell before, elfs would be more heterogenous in each world and less 'magical upitty anglo-saxons', the main elf would be the christmas one for a while, dwarves still miners would not be small scottish and so on.

In general CS LEWIS is butterfly away, maybe Asimov would rule invictus and the literature being more sci-fi based? as someone make a timelne of LOTR as a tragicomedy writed by George Macdonald Fraser, maybe fantasy as the OP mentioned would be more moral ambigous full with anti heroes and tragicomical full of black humour?

I agree that a lot of tropes that Tolkien established for fantasy would not be set in stone, ie his interpretation would not be the definitive one, and there might be a lot more variety. CS Lewis may be butterflied away; however, I think he would still be writing fiction. Without Tolkien's influence he could go in any direction. I always thought an interesting AH thread would be where he becomes an atheist polemicist.
 
I am not sure that he was ever a full-blown atheist, just very heavily riven with doubt in the early 1920s. Agree that Tolkien's influence was a major reaffirmation of his early faith and helped him back to belief but Lewis was a man very strongly influenced by Christianity with a strong nuanced understanding/appreciation of the same. I suspect that even without Tolkien, he would have eventually returned to the fold. Probably we would be crediting Charles Williams, Stoddart Kennedy or Father Ronnie Knox instead of Tolkien but Lewis was a man who wanted to believe and insightful enough not to accept Communism or Fascism as a substitute faith.

See my comment in other discussion thread.
 
I would say the legacy is part genre, part level. Tolkien aet the bar so High with hus meticulous research and it is unsure if Anyone else would have created a complete fictional Universe to tap into. With or without elves.
The genre might still pop up, but be more difficult to write. Today, the reader Can fill in the blanks by experience with LotR or fantasy derived from it, and the job of the writer is easier (except to find originality).
See it as the DOS or Windows for fantasy, with all the follow-ups beeing the updates.
Guess Asimov must have taken the job at Apple.
 
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