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- Thread starter The Director
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So An American Tail with Chinese mice in SanFran then? Sounds interesting
Im wondering what the "There are no Cats in America" song would be like in this version?
In the original kamen rider, hongo was fully converted except for his brain. In this series, it could be similar. As in infected with strain, but developed antibodies for the chimera strain. Leaving his brain intact. However, he ended up looking like chimeras.
a bit of an update on this--i haven't put much thought into it yet 1) because i'm actually away from my main computer right now and therefore don't have access to the Word document where i keep all this information and 2) because i literally just learned of this. it turns out that Doyle actually DID write a gothic horror story featuring a mummy IOTL, called Lot No. 249. that's inspired me to redo the Ozymandias concept to be an alternate version of both the Holmes stories AND this other short story--the Renfield character is therefore replaced by Lot No. 249's Edward Bellingham, who in that story is the one responsible for the mummy's revival and uses it to attack people he doesn't like. it might also be that the one who unleashed Rameses in the story is actually James Illingworth from The Lost World, Professor Challenger's rival and all-around asshole; it's probably most accurately that he stole Rameses' remains from Egypt (in-universe, Egypt is more or less controlled by France at this point in history--remember, this is basically a show-within-a-show for my ASB ATL) and disturbed him in transit, possibly being that he lost the mummy before leaving Egypt and that's how Ozymandias reawakens (Egypt being Transylvania in analogy) and kicks off the plot, his plan being to get to Britannia to take revenge on Illingworth (which he does) and then do whatever the hell he wants. based on the conclusion of Lot No. 249, it's probably that Ozymandias is destroyed by fire rather than staked and decapitated (since that would only work for Dracula, anyway). it could also be that Watson is used in place of Jonathan Harker instead of Holmes and therefore Mary Morstan replaces Mina, but then who stands in for Lucy...?i've developed a bit more for this idea in the past few days, even a way that i could eventually write and publish it as its own thing. i'd want to get the blessing of the Stoker and Doyle estates beforehand just as a matter of respect (but, since Dracula and the Sherlock Holmes stories public domain, i could totally just flip 'em the bird and do whatever i want with the charactersa larger replacement/equivalency thing came to me last week with regards to the internal real-world and fiction of my ASB ATL. one narrative project for the TL itself, rather than a fictional work within it, is what i'm currently calling "The Wallachia Cycle" as a rather large-scale homage to classic/gothic horror and Victorian literature, stripping away the fantastical elements from several OTL works of fiction and making a narrative within the larger TL out of it, and in some cases i'm also going for a mutual exclusivity rule where if a character (or group of characters) in the Wallachia Cycle narrative is too similar to an OTL fictional character, then that OTL fictional character is omitted from fiction within the TL. getting more to the point, a group of Wallachia Cycle characters are based on the Sherlock Holmes stories with a Sherringford Hope, Ormond Sacker, and Arnulf Rasendechse among them being direct analogues for Holmes, Watson, and Moriarty, respectively. since they're so closely based on that, i'm cutting Sherlock Holmes out of TTL's fiction altogether. at the same time, there's also an even bigger part of the narrative (and the true inspiration for it, as you may have guessed from the title) where the main antagonist of the story is essentially Dracula if he weren't a vampire and replicating alot of the original Dracula narrative around that. so Dracula is omitted as well and, as an archetypal vampire, will be replaced by Lord Ruthven in media while the exact placement of Dracula as a character is instead taken by a story about mummies. but what to use in their place....?
the point is that i'm removing both Sherlock Holmes and Dracula from TTL's fiction because internally real characters based on them are being used as pretty direct expys, but i still want to include their archetypes in TTL's fiction as well, and i just recently came up with an idea for what to replace them with. it's a bit roundabout, but i'm switching the narratives themselves between Bram Stoker and Arthur Conan Doyle so Stoker writes the mystery stories and Doyle gets the horror novel. Doyle's story is an alternate version of Dracula with a resurrected mummy replacing the count and probably some Holmes characters, or at least their names, being used in place of the OTL Dracula characters with the alternate Mina being use like Helen Grosvenor from 1932's The Mummy (the real inspiration for this concept), and Stoker writes a series of Sherlock Holmes analogues featuring none other than Dr. Van Helsing as the detective, here as a quasi-paranormal investigator going about and dispelling myths that people are using for their own ends such as murder and robbery, using his knowledge of legends from all over Europe to do so (a bit like Scooby-Doo, now that i think about it). Van Holmesing, if you like
a bit more significantly, i've come up with what some of the alternate characters are or could be:
thoughts?
- Abraham Van Helsing replaces Sherlock Holmes in Stoker's detective stories, but in Doyle's horror novel Van Helsing is replaced by James Moriarty--i mainly wanted to mix things up with this one and therefore recast Holmes' ultimate villain as one of the heroes
- John Seward replaces Dr. Watson in the alternate detective stories--and with respect to that Lucy Westenra replaces Mary Morstan, but unlike in Dracula her death comes from authentic tuberculosis (the pre-vampire implication in the original novel) and it's basically a smaller WI of "what if Lucy wanted to marry Seward instead of Holmwood?"--but, like with Moriarty replacing Van Helsing, in the horror novel Seward is replaced by Moriarty's chief henchman Sebastian Moran, the link between the two characters being that their close associates with the outside authority of Van Helsing/Moriarty and the one that brings them into the main events of the story
- the proper title of the alternate Dracula novel is Ozymandias with the idea being that, like how Dracula is implied to be vampirized form of Vlad Tepes, Ozymandias (who is referred to as Rameses or a variation of that as often as not) is supposed to be the reanimated mummy of the Pharaoh from the Book of Exodus, so Moriarty's version of Van Helsing's speculative line from Dracula is re-rendered as something like "He must indeed have been the Pharaoh Rameses who made his name against the Hebrews, over the Red Sea on the very edge of Egypt. If it be so, then he was no common man..." etc. etc.; while Dracula is replaced by the fictionalized Rameses, in Stoker's detective stories Dracula may well be completely absent rather than used as an alternate version of Moriarty (unless i can find a plausible alternate name to use for him instead, some alias which doesn't imply a connection to Vlad Tepes) and the role of Moriarty is instead taken by Renfield, but it's far more tempting to find some other version of Dracula instead and have Renfield replace Sebastian Moran
- in Doyle's horror novel, Mina Murray is replaced by Irene Adler mainly for their similar role as leading female characters and intelligent, capable women in a time period stereotyped as frowning on that sort of thing, (it also works as a meta gag referring to League of Extraordinary Gentlemen since Moore was originally going to use Irene Adler as the main protagonist instead of Mina) and with respect to that Sherlock Holmes himself is the alternate Jonathan Harker, though i want to find a different first name to use for Holmes in this case mainly because i think it would be too distracting to have frickin' Sherlock Holmes as an initially less-than-capable solicitor rather than the greatest detective in literature; unlike in the classic Holmes stories, Irene and Sherlock get together just like Jonathan and Mina did so she becomes Irene Holmes partway through the story just like how Mina went from Murray to Harker
- for Doyle's part, the other two main characters in the group acting against defeat Ozymandias are John Watson in place of Arthur Holmwood and G. Lestrade (as in Inspector Lestrade--i need to find a proper given name for him) in place of Quincey Morris
also, separately from the "Van Holmesing" project, i've recently been coming up with some ideas for stories by the fictional Wizard Comics. particularly, it relates to the "conclusion" of the story of their primary superhero Beowulf--don't let the name fool you, this isn't supposed to be the original literary Beowulf, he's actually a proxy for the real-world public-domain comics character Johnny Canuck, based on the real-world political cartoon personification of Canada (though his role and abilities are more like Captain America sans the supersoldier serum, even having an indestructible shield). the idea is that it's a crisis event limited series called Peril at the Earth's Core, in which the Britannian superhero team called the Sunsetters (with representatives from all over their empire, though most are from OTL's British Isles, and there's even an American or two in there) learn about a plot by their primary enemies, the Reclaiming Rulers led by the Crooked Man which involves a venture into the "Hollow Earth" (it's actually a giant cavern, probably in the upper mantle or something, rather than the supposing that Earth is a hollow shell with another sun in the middle and counter-gravity pushing outward) to find an energy source to power their latest scheme, which has to happen exactly then because of tectonics or something like that. but it turns out there's an eldritch horror of some kind deep under the surface called Night Scather (from the dragon in Beowulf) that will destroy the surface world if it escapes. in order to keep it from escaping, their leader Beowulf sacrifices himself to seal the only exit from the other side, then turns to fight the monster in a battle that he knows he can't win
of course, this being comics, he doesn't actually die he's replaced by an old airforce buddy of his who becomes the second Beowulf (but the leadership role is taken by Boreala, Shieldmaiden of the Sky, instead; she's based on another Canadian comics character named Nelvana of the Northern Lights) but then, years later in a different crisis event, out of nowhere Beowulf shows up again from a different passage to the Hollow Earth, alive, well, and now styled like a barbarian hero (so now he looks more like the original Beowulf, i guess ) to save the day, probably with help from a dinosaur he befriended in the Hollow Earth because there are always dinosaurs underground
i'd share some more about the Sunsetters and Reclaiming Rulers, but i'm still away from my main computer right now and can't copy anything from there, and my session on this computer is almost over, anyway. if anyone's interested in seeing more about them, i'll post again later.
EDIT: i only remembered after this that i'd already posted some stuff about the Sunsetters earlier in this thread
of course, this being comics, he doesn't actually die
he's replaced by an old airforce buddy of his who becomes the second Beowulf (but the leadership role is taken by Boreala, Shieldmaiden of the Sky, instead; she's based on another Canadian comics character named Nelvana of the Northern Lights) but then, years later in a different crisis event, out of nowhere Beowulf shows up again from a different passage to the Hollow Earth, alive, well, and now styled like a barbarian hero (so now he looks more like the original Beowulf, i guess ) to save the day, probably with help from a dinosaur he befriended in the Hollow Earth because there are always dinosaurs underground i'd share some more about the Sunsetters and Reclaiming Rulers, but i'm still away from my main computer right now and can't copy anything from there, and my session on this computer is almost over, anyway. if anyone's interested in seeing more about them, i'll post again later.
EDIT: i only remembered after this that i'd already posted some stuff about the Sunsetters earlier in this thread
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Right, But since these mice are coming from Asia, there would be an equivalent to the Italian Mice and the Irish Mice who sing their miseries.
Maybe the Irish Mouse can be Korean, having lost his Love to Japanese or Russian Mice maybe. Maybe we could have a Indochinese Mouse trying to escape from French Cats.
and a Japanese mouse in place of the Italian one for the crime syndicate angle--he lost his brother and then his mother to yakuza cats. the Mouskewitz family themselves would work best as Chinese, i think.
oh! and Tony would be Japanese with the same seeming implication that he's the *Tony that the other mouse mentioned in his part of the song. he could be named Haru as rough analogue to "Tony" (i looked up the etymology of "Anthony" just now to figure out a possible Japanese equivalent )
)I never thought those Two Tonies were Related, I always thought that the Second Tony was born in American to Italian Immigrants.oh! and Tony would be Japanese with the same seeming implication that he's the *Tony that the other mouse mentioned in his part of the song. he could be named Haru as rough analogue to "Tony" (i looked up the etymology of "Anthony" just now to figure out a possible Japanese equivalent
i'm not necessarily saying that, but then why would they mention an unseen Tony who comes from Sicily and then have another Tony who also comes from Sicily
the alternate naming would still fit in any case, and it would work as a direct parallel to the OTL filmI didn't say I disagreed, I'm just saying that I never noted that they both shared a name.i'm not necessarily saying that, but then why would they mention an unseen Tony who comes from Sicily and then have another Tony who also comes from Sicily
For some odd reason, I want to do a sci-fi, Space Cadet-esque scenario involving sapient mice.
"But there are nooo cats on Ju-pi-ter, where the moons are made of cheese! There are nooo cats on Ju-pi-ter, so set your mind at ease!"
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