Pop-culture in TL-191

  • Thread starter Deleted member 82792
  • Start date
Or maybe "For all mankind" is an Alternate world where Japan joined the Space Race and are making a startling enough amount of progress to frighten the Germans and Americans.

TL191versionFor All Mankind Poster.jpg

Poster for the TL-191 version of "For All Mankind"

japanese_moon_landing_by_sapiains_d6sjz4d-fullview.jpg

Concept art for the first episode of "For All Mankind", Yellow Moon
Source:
https://www.deviantart.com/sapiains/art/Japanese-moon-landing-410758285

german_moon_landing_by_sapiains_d6siacz-fullview.jpg

Actual drawing used by the Verein für Raumschiffahrt (VfR) in Breslau before the German moon landing in 1959.

Second picture in post:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...federacy-tl-191.185493/page-153#post-17724719
 
Last edited:
With his noted OTl racism one wonders if in Tl-191 he has some kind of personal Confederate influence and also if he was popular in the CSA-? Not that you couldnt be racist in the US in Tl--191 during the early 20th Century but you know what I mean...
Or maybe he is less racist in that timeline
 

Ficboy

Banned
Another thing, One of the first ever blockbusters, Birth of the Nation from 1915 (One which has aged horribly) focuses heavily on Reconstruction. So this really makes me wonder what the first Blockbuster in TL 191 would be about. Seeing that the Union and Confederacy would be at war in 1915, I can see it being a Confederate Propaganda Film that focuses on the South's glorious victories in both the Mexican War and War of Secession. It could even still maintain it's name "Birth of a Nation."
By the way, Birth of A Nation is based off The Clansman which was second book in the Ku Klux Klan Trilogy by Thomas Dixon Jr alongside The Leopard's Spots and The Traitor. Since the Ku Klux Klan doesn't exist whatsoever in Timeline 191 not to mention the altered post-war South as the independent Confederacy my guess is that two of Dixon's books will likely have different names altogether.
 
I'm wondering who the big 5 equivalent would be in TL 191's Worldwar series. Obviously it would probably be more than 5. Part of me can see Russia ITTL being conquered by the Race due to it most likely not being as developed as OTL's USSR was, but the Race would probably give it up due to being too unsuitable for the Race's biology.
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
I'm wondering who the big 5 equivalent would be in TL 191's Worldwar series. Obviously it would probably be more than 5. Part of me can see Russia ITTL being conquered by the Race due to it most likely not being as developed as OTL's USSR was, but the Race would probably give it up due to being too unsuitable for the Race's biology.


Well it could be a Big 6 if you include Russia. But if only 5 its the USA,CSA, Germany.UK and Japan. The Race maybe doesnt really want Russia since most of it is very cold but they would obviously want and take the Ottoman Empire. France is pretty screwed here as in Worldwar.
 
I always thought a Anti-Featherston coup would depose him in a Race/ TL-191 crossover when he refused to stop persecuting the war against the US, which leads to a North American Union. And a super rickety Union of US, CS, and Canada being free of the Race.
 
I'm wondering who the big 5 equivalent would be in TL 191's Worldwar series. Obviously it would probably be more than 5. Part of me can see Russia ITTL being conquered by the Race due to it most likely not being as developed as OTL's USSR was, but the Race would probably give it up due to being too unsuitable for the Race's biology.
Even if 191-Russia isn’t as advanced as the USSR, I can’t see The Race conquering Russia. They’d probably wear them down enough that by the time a peace treaty comes around, The Race can claim the the periphery oblasts of the Russian Empire as part of their own.


I always thought a Anti-Featherston coup would depose him in a Race/ TL-191 crossover when he refused to stop persecuting the war against the US, which leads to a North American Union. And a super rickety Union of US, CS, and Canada being free of the Race.
Nathan Bedford Forrest III’s Bunker plot succeeds, maybe? The CSA would probably lose Texas and it’s western states. I can’t see the CSA or the US entertains into any formal alliance beyond an informal détente as there’s too much bad blood between Richmond and Philadelphia even without Featherston in charge.

Wonder if Canadian rebels could pull a Poland and make the great white north a protectate colony of the Race.
 

Deleted member 82792

Notwithstanding if the themes in the book are the same in both OTL and TL-191, the book would probably have more Turkic influence than Arab.
Can you give us some examples of Turkic culture being adapted into Dune?
 
hqdefault.jpg

A scene from the Japanese film series War of our Fathers, in which Japanese and Russian (to the right offscreen) Naval Commanders are shown aboard the battleship Mutsu planning their major operation against the Union held Queen Charlotte Islands.

The War of our Fathers series would comprise of five films which were from different point of views ranging from a squad of Imperial Japanese Army soldiers, pilots of the Imperial Japanese Navy stationed aboard an aircraft carrier, to commanders of both the Army and Navy, and there a few non-Japanese characters in the film such as the German Admiral Kurt Fricke (played by Italian actor Adolfo Celi), whom Fricke was historically the Commander-in-Chief of the German Far East Fleet in 1941. The film utilized many SGW era vehicles and aircraft, including 7 Ki-43 Hayabusa and the Ki-121 trainer variant, 13 A6M5 Zero fighters as both themselves and as US Navy fighters, 5 Chi-Ha Kai medium barrels, one restored Russian BT-7 cavalry barrel, and scaled models of Japanese, Union, British, Russian, and German warships that served during that time. In addition, the film was shot in Japan, Korea, Manchuria, the Philippines, and in the Seto Inland Sea as well as aboard the museum ships Nagato and Kaga as well much of the indoor sets being done at Toho Studios. The War of our Fathers series would prove to be one of the most expensive movies ever made in Japanese history and it would receive mixed reviews, with one German critic stating "Though the series' battle scenes are well made, I got a feeling that this film got tainted by Japanese bias when it comes to the bigger picture."

Film I: Storm over Asia - A fresh group of Japanese Army soldiers and the rest of their unit (being part of the 25th Infantry Division) would take part in the Chungyuan Operation and win a significant victory against the Chinese National Revolutionary Army. Meanwhile war commences in Europe between the Central Powers and the Radius, Japan would follow suit by taking part in the Invasion of German New Guinea. The film's climax would center around the Battle of the Bismarck Sea which would see the destruction of the German Far East Fleet, in which air supremacy of the Japanese Fleet proved decisive, which the German defeat would pave the way for the Fall of German New Guinea by ANZAC forces. Towards the end of the film, the Japanese Empire would also declare war on the United States following a successful Confederate Invasion of Ohio with Operation Blackbeard.

Film II: Of Steel and Fire - After the Union enters the conflict, the Imperial Japanese Navy would begin conducting operations against the USN in the Central and Eastern Pacific. These engagements between the USN and the IJN would eventually cumulate with the Battle of Midway in December of 1941, in which the Japanese would sink the aircraft carrier USS Remembrance during the battle, thus ensuring the fall of Midway. At the same time, the Russians would request Japanese reinforcements to aid in their fight against Union Forces on the Alaskan Front, and thus the 25th Division was sent out to be part of the Japanese Expeditionary Force, in which the 25th would fight in American Columbia, mainly in the fighting around Kitimat.

Film III: Turning Point - Film III actually comes in two parts, Part 1; The Aircraft Carrier Kaga (which the one group of protagonist pilots were based on) would sent out to the waters of Russian Alaska along with a few other major IJN vessels to aid the Russian Navy in a major naval operation in the region. This would lead up to the Second Battle of the Three Navies near the Queen Charlotte Islands, in which two of the characters from the Kokutai would die. The resulting battle would see heavy losses on both sides, including both the IJN and the USN each losing two carriers. On land, the 25th Infantry Division would be struck by the Union Army's October Counter-Offensive at Kitimat, where they suffered heavy losses to the enemy, and ended up being pulled out of the Alaskan Front. The IJN task force there would follow suit shortly thereafter, at the same time, the Radius Alliance was suffering major defeats in Norway, Poland, and at Pittsburgh.

Part 2; After returning to Japan, the battered remnants of the 25th Infantry Division is reformed as a motorized infantry division and was soon sent off to Korea. The Japanese High Command would begin drawing up plans to backstab their Radius Allies and to conquer the Far Eastern possessions of Russia and Britain. The 1st Carrier Division (in which the Kaga is apart of) would be sent out to Java following a refit of the aircraft carriers and major warships.

Film IV: The Beginning of the End - On April 4th, 1943, the Japanese Empire would officially change sides in the War as their forces would initiate their attacks against Russian and British Far Eastern possessions. The 25th Motorized Division would spearhead the attack from Korea, smashing the Russian frontier defenses on the Korean-Manchurian border. Large numbers of soldiers of the Manchurian National Army would desert and join the Japanese forces. In South-East Asia, the Japanese would quickly seize control of Borneo, Sumatra, and much of Malaya from the British and the 1st Carrier Division's aircraft in conjunction with land-based bombers from Indochina would successfully attack and destroy Force Z near Singapore.

Film V: The Last Assault - The 25th Motorized Division would take part in the Crossing of the Amur, crushing the Russian defenses and making their "Drive towards the Baikal." The 1st Carrier Division along with a lot of other IJN carriers and capital ships would battle the Royal Navy in the Indian Ocean, which would result in the destruction of the British carrier HMS Hermes and several cruisers, which eliminated the Royal Navy as a major force in the Indian Ocean. The British would capitulate following the Superbombing campaign of British cities by Germany and the signing of the Treaty of Hiroshima on September 2nd 1945, the film would end with the Victory Parade in Tokyo on September 26th, 1945.

==============================================
I have largely based this film series off the OTL Soviet film series Liberation.
 
hqdefault.jpg

A scene from the Japanese film series War of our Fathers, in which Japanese and Russian (to the right offscreen) Naval Commanders are shown aboard the battleship Mutsu planning their major operation against the Union held Queen Charlotte Islands.

The War of our Fathers series would comprise of five films which were from different point of views ranging from a squad of Imperial Japanese Army soldiers, pilots of the Imperial Japanese Navy stationed aboard an aircraft carrier, to commanders of both the Army and Navy, and there a few non-Japanese characters in the film such as the German Admiral Kurt Fricke (played by Italian actor Adolfo Celi), whom Fricke was historically the Commander-in-Chief of the German Far East Fleet in 1941. The film utilized many SGW era vehicles and aircraft, including 7 Ki-43 Hayabusa and the Ki-121 trainer variant, 13 A6M5 Zero fighters as both themselves and as US Navy fighters, 5 Chi-Ha Kai medium barrels, one restored Russian BT-7 cavalry barrel, and scaled models of Japanese, Union, British, Russian, and German warships that served during that time. In addition, the film was shot in Japan, Korea, Manchuria, the Philippines, and in the Seto Inland Sea as well as aboard the museum ships Nagato and Kaga as well much of the indoor sets being done at Toho Studios. The War of our Fathers series would prove to be one of the most expensive movies ever made in Japanese history and it would receive mixed reviews, with one German critic stating "Though the series' battle scenes are well made, I got a feeling that this film got tainted by Japanese bias when it comes to the bigger picture."

Film I: Storm over Asia - A fresh group of Japanese Army soldiers and the rest of their unit (being part of the 25th Infantry Division) would take part in the Chungyuan Operation and win a significant victory against the Chinese National Revolutionary Army. Meanwhile war commences in Europe between the Central Powers and the Radius, Japan would follow suit by taking part in the Invasion of German New Guinea. The film's climax would center around the Battle of the Bismarck Sea which would see the destruction of the German Far East Fleet, in which air supremacy of the Japanese Fleet proved decisive, which the German defeat would pave the way for the Fall of German New Guinea by ANZAC forces. Towards the end of the film, the Japanese Empire would also declare war on the United States following a successful Confederate Invasion of Ohio with Operation Blackbeard.

Film II: Of Steel and Fire - After the Union enters the conflict, the Imperial Japanese Navy would begin conducting operations against the USN in the Central and Eastern Pacific. These engagements between the USN and the IJN would eventually cumulate with the Battle of Midway in December of 1941, in which the Japanese would sink the aircraft carrier USS Remembrance during the battle, thus ensuring the fall of Midway. At the same time, the Russians would request Japanese reinforcements to aid in their fight against Union Forces on the Alaskan Front, and thus the 25th Division was sent out to be part of the Japanese Expeditionary Force, in which the 25th would fight in American Columbia, mainly in the fighting around Kitimat.

Film III: Turning Point - Film III actually comes in two parts, Part 1; The Aircraft Carrier Kaga (which the one group of protagonist pilots were based on) would sent out to the waters of Russian Alaska along with a few other major IJN vessels to aid the Russian Navy in a major naval operation in the region. This would lead up to the Second Battle of the Three Navies near the Queen Charlotte Islands, in which two of the characters from the Kokutai would die. The resulting battle would see heavy losses on both sides, including both the IJN and the USN each losing two carriers. On land, the 25th Infantry Division would be struck by the Union Army's October Counter-Offensive at Kitimat, where they suffered heavy losses to the enemy, and ended up being pulled out of the Alaskan Front. The IJN task force there would follow suit shortly thereafter, at the same time, the Radius Alliance was suffering major defeats in Norway, Poland, and at Pittsburgh.

Part 2; After returning to Japan, the battered remnants of the 25th Infantry Division is reformed as a motorized infantry division and was soon sent off to Korea. The Japanese High Command would begin drawing up plans to backstab their Radius Allies and to conquer the Far Eastern possessions of Russia and Britain. The 1st Carrier Division (in which the Kaga is apart of) would be sent out to Java following a refit of the aircraft carriers and major warships.

Film IV: The Beginning of the End - On April 4th, 1943, the Japanese Empire would officially change sides in the War as their forces would initiate their attacks against Russian and British Far Eastern possessions. The 25th Motorized Division would spearhead the attack from Korea, smashing the Russian frontier defenses on the Korean-Manchurian border. Large numbers of soldiers of the Manchurian National Army would desert and join the Japanese forces. In South-East Asia, the Japanese would quickly seize control of Borneo, Sumatra, and much of Malaya from the British and the 1st Carrier Division's aircraft in conjunction with land-based bombers from Indochina would successfully attack and destroy Force Z near Singapore.

Film V: The Last Assault - The 25th Motorized Division would take part in the Crossing of the Amur, crushing the Russian defenses and making their "Drive towards the Baikal." The 1st Carrier Division along with a lot of other IJN carriers and capital ships would battle the Royal Navy in the Indian Ocean, which would result in the destruction of the British carrier HMS Hermes and several cruisers, which eliminated the Royal Navy as a major force in the Indian Ocean. The British would capitulate following the Superbombing campaign of British cities by Germany and the signing of the Treaty of Hiroshima on September 2nd 1945, the film would end with the Victory Parade in Tokyo on September 26th, 1945.

==============================================
I have largely based this film series off the OTL Soviet film series Liberation.
Good stuff, would love to be able to see these alt films.
 
I can forsee USS Dakota being represented as this angry-looking bully of an older girl, who has a reputation for taking on an entire gang on her own (in representation of her jammed-steering maneuver in the Battle of the Sandwich islands)
As of lately, I've thinking about what would the appearance of the Fleet Girls representing Confederate warships would be like. I'd imagine that they would either have the clothing of a Southern Belle or War of Secession Confederate Army and Navy uniforms. But I wonder what you guys have to say about my thoughts on this.
 
hqdefault.jpg

A scene from the Japanese film series War of our Fathers, in which Japanese and Russian (to the right offscreen) Naval Commanders are shown aboard the battleship Mutsu planning their major operation against the Union held Queen Charlotte Islands.

The War of our Fathers series would comprise of five films which were from different point of views ranging from a squad of Imperial Japanese Army soldiers, pilots of the Imperial Japanese Navy stationed aboard an aircraft carrier, to commanders of both the Army and Navy, and there a few non-Japanese characters in the film such as the German Admiral Kurt Fricke (played by Italian actor Adolfo Celi), whom Fricke was historically the Commander-in-Chief of the German Far East Fleet in 1941. The film utilized many SGW era vehicles and aircraft, including 7 Ki-43 Hayabusa and the Ki-121 trainer variant, 13 A6M5 Zero fighters as both themselves and as US Navy fighters, 5 Chi-Ha Kai medium barrels, one restored Russian BT-7 cavalry barrel, and scaled models of Japanese, Union, British, Russian, and German warships that served during that time. In addition, the film was shot in Japan, Korea, Manchuria, the Philippines, and in the Seto Inland Sea as well as aboard the museum ships Nagato and Kaga as well much of the indoor sets being done at Toho Studios. The War of our Fathers series would prove to be one of the most expensive movies ever made in Japanese history and it would receive mixed reviews, with one German critic stating "Though the series' battle scenes are well made, I got a feeling that this film got tainted by Japanese bias when it comes to the bigger picture."

Film I: Storm over Asia - A fresh group of Japanese Army soldiers and the rest of their unit (being part of the 25th Infantry Division) would take part in the Chungyuan Operation and win a significant victory against the Chinese National Revolutionary Army. Meanwhile war commences in Europe between the Central Powers and the Radius, Japan would follow suit by taking part in the Invasion of German New Guinea. The film's climax would center around the Battle of the Bismarck Sea which would see the destruction of the German Far East Fleet, in which air supremacy of the Japanese Fleet proved decisive, which the German defeat would pave the way for the Fall of German New Guinea by ANZAC forces. Towards the end of the film, the Japanese Empire would also declare war on the United States following a successful Confederate Invasion of Ohio with Operation Blackbeard.

Film II: Of Steel and Fire - After the Union enters the conflict, the Imperial Japanese Navy would begin conducting operations against the USN in the Central and Eastern Pacific. These engagements between the USN and the IJN would eventually cumulate with the Battle of Midway in December of 1941, in which the Japanese would sink the aircraft carrier USS Remembrance during the battle, thus ensuring the fall of Midway. At the same time, the Russians would request Japanese reinforcements to aid in their fight against Union Forces on the Alaskan Front, and thus the 25th Division was sent out to be part of the Japanese Expeditionary Force, in which the 25th would fight in American Columbia, mainly in the fighting around Kitimat.

Film III: Turning Point - Film III actually comes in two parts, Part 1; The Aircraft Carrier Kaga (which the one group of protagonist pilots were based on) would sent out to the waters of Russian Alaska along with a few other major IJN vessels to aid the Russian Navy in a major naval operation in the region. This would lead up to the Second Battle of the Three Navies near the Queen Charlotte Islands, in which two of the characters from the Kokutai would die. The resulting battle would see heavy losses on both sides, including both the IJN and the USN each losing two carriers. On land, the 25th Infantry Division would be struck by the Union Army's October Counter-Offensive at Kitimat, where they suffered heavy losses to the enemy, and ended up being pulled out of the Alaskan Front. The IJN task force there would follow suit shortly thereafter, at the same time, the Radius Alliance was suffering major defeats in Norway, Poland, and at Pittsburgh.

Part 2; After returning to Japan, the battered remnants of the 25th Infantry Division is reformed as a motorized infantry division and was soon sent off to Korea. The Japanese High Command would begin drawing up plans to backstab their Radius Allies and to conquer the Far Eastern possessions of Russia and Britain. The 1st Carrier Division (in which the Kaga is apart of) would be sent out to Java following a refit of the aircraft carriers and major warships.

Film IV: The Beginning of the End - On April 4th, 1943, the Japanese Empire would officially change sides in the War as their forces would initiate their attacks against Russian and British Far Eastern possessions. The 25th Motorized Division would spearhead the attack from Korea, smashing the Russian frontier defenses on the Korean-Manchurian border. Large numbers of soldiers of the Manchurian National Army would desert and join the Japanese forces. In South-East Asia, the Japanese would quickly seize control of Borneo, Sumatra, and much of Malaya from the British and the 1st Carrier Division's aircraft in conjunction with land-based bombers from Indochina would successfully attack and destroy Force Z near Singapore.

Film V: The Last Assault - The 25th Motorized Division would take part in the Crossing of the Amur, crushing the Russian defenses and making their "Drive towards the Baikal." The 1st Carrier Division along with a lot of other IJN carriers and capital ships would battle the Royal Navy in the Indian Ocean, which would result in the destruction of the British carrier HMS Hermes and several cruisers, which eliminated the Royal Navy as a major force in the Indian Ocean. The British would capitulate following the Superbombing campaign of British cities by Germany and the signing of the Treaty of Hiroshima on September 2nd 1945, the film would end with the Victory Parade in Tokyo on September 26th, 1945.

==============================================
I have largely based this film series off the OTL Soviet film series Liberation.
Interesting write-up. I never heard of these films before.
 
Zipang_volume_43_cover.png

Poster cover for the French aníma show, Zipanga

Considered to be a "giant wet-dream" for the Japanese Empire, Zipanga takes place in a universe where the Japanese Destroyer ship, Mirai, is sent back in time to the 1940's and the crew decide to help their past navy fleet fight against the Russians, British, and possibly Americans for supreme dominance of the Pacific.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipang_(manga)
 
Last edited:
Thanks to the Templin Institute, I recently discovered Ralph Bakshi's 1977 post-apocalyptic fantasy film Wizards. In the film, the main antagonist, Blackwolf, uses Nazi Germany as a model for his fascist society.

Let's say for the sake of argument, the film also exists in TL-191. Does Blackwolf use Featherston's Confederacy as a model for his society instead?

 
Top