now that i'd believe--like i said before, Happy Dan doesn't have a Wiki page, either, but is cited as the basis for Lady and the Tramp, so it could easily be that there was a picture book out there somewhere that Aristocats was based on. it's not at all out-there: plenty of movies have been based on picture books or short poems and drastically expanded on the plot, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse--the one that immediately jumps to mind for me is actually Shrek, based on a picture book pretty much with only surface-level similarities to the movie made a decade later
If poor old Sam Carsten delays his "tombstone promotion" to CAPTAIN Sam for long enough, I can imagine him writing (or quite possibly dictating) memoirs depicting a career in the US Navy 1914-1944; the name WAR & REMEMBRANCE occurs to me, which would work as a title for those memoirs AND the inevitable War Movie/TV miniseries based on them (possibly focussing on Mr Carsten's service with USS Remembrance ... or not).
In all honesty, if the adaptation were cinematic WAR & REMEMBRANCE would definitely focus on the USS Remembrance in action against the Japanese - presumably as the most straightforwardly blatant way of whipping up enthusiasm for another crack at Japan by way of settling unfinished business - whereas a TV miniseries would likely focus on a somewhat broader scope, possibly as the study of a career rather than a "message" picture (no matter whether the career is that or USS Remembrance or her most ubiquitous officer).
I imagine the North vs South divide being somehow even worse than in the OTL series.
Dunno, Lannisters opressing Summer Islanders because EVUL SOUTHERNER.
(My dislike for the South/North divide in ASOIAF is really a pet peeve of mine)
Dunno, Lannisters opressing Summer Islanders because EVUL SOUTHERNER.
(My dislike for the South/North divide in ASOIAF is really a pet peeve of mine)
I think that the game of thrones analog would be less similar to England during the war of the roses, and more akin to Germany/German States with the main conflict being some mashup of the 30 years war and the war of Austrian succession because of the German American alliance. In this alternate game of thrones, I could see a faction of religious radicals that don't drink Meade and have multiple wives.
So the High Sparrow and Faith Militant turned up a notch or two?
Maybe 191 GRR Martin takes inspiration from the Franco-Prussian War, replacing the French with the White Walkers
Unlike the War of Secession, which ended in 1862 with a Confederate victory, the Antietam Timeline books depict the war lasting several more years, with more unique, bloody battles, and ending in a Union victory.
Last edited:
In my opinion the entertainment industry in the 191 universe, following In at the Death, would likely be somewhat more conservative and restrained than the entertainment industry in our timeline, but still not entirely different.
One of the biggest factors might be the desire of the post Second Great War US government to suppress anything it felt was too subversive or seditious, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were actually someone in the US government who carries the ominous sounding title of Director of Societal Hygiene. The Dept. of Societal Hygiene (or something similar) might be responsible for the monitoring of all content created by the television, movie, and music studios, and to make sure that none of the said entertainment material being released to the public is too offensive, distasteful, or unduly obscene.
Maybe certain waivers would occasionally be issued by the Dept. of Societal Hygiene for artistic purposes. For example: a Hollywood studio wants to make a realistic film about the lives of ordinary soldiers during the Second Great War, such a lifelike film might include partial nudity, graphic sex scenes, and gratuitous violence. In order to release such a film the studio would have to have it first approved by monitors from the Dept. of Societal Hygiene. Does money sometimes get exchanged under the table, and does questionable content sometimes get released upon an unsuspecting populace? Maybe.
I think that the government would quickly realize the effect that popular music has upon teenagers and young people of the 1950s & 60s, and the government would probably do its best to limit the amount of rebelliousness portrayed in Rock and Roll music.
I imagine that popular music performers of the 1950s would mostly be a string of one hit wonders, performing novelty hits, and that the performers themselves don't earn the types of royalties per record that performers in our timeline do. No one really gets rich or famous until a performer by the name of Jesse Presley begins attracting a loyal following of bobbysoxer fans has he tours county fairs during the summer of 1955. Presley is invited to perform on national television after a major news magazine puts him on their front cover. The government responds to the perceived threat by inducting Presley into the US Army and stationing him at a remote base in Northwest Canada for the next four years. Presley's fickle fans forget about him during his stint in the army, and he spends the rest of his life as a policeman in Memphis, Tennessee.
Over in Europe, I think that the entertainment industry might be more liberal, especially in Britain where people are looking for an escape from the drudgery of the postwar years. By the early 1960s talent scouts from the US arrive in Europe in search of new music acts to sell to the US music consumer. In Europe music acts tend to have more staying power, so when the Beatles are brought to the US in 1963, they are not so easily disposed of.
Also, I imagine that during the 1960s there might be a burgeoning black market industry supplying illegal vinyl records to US college students, particularly in the New South.
I think that the main reason for allowing Rock and Roll to exist would be the growing popularity of transistor radios, first introduced in the early 1950s. Music executives quickly realize that the complex jazz and big band sounds of the 1930s and 40s do not translate well through a tiny two inch hand held speaker, and in order to increase the sales of handheld radios, an entirely new more simpler genre of music must be allowed to exist, and that genre would be Rock and Roll.
As time goes by, and home music systems begin to improve throughout the 1960s, I think that there would be a lot of bands similar to the Carpenters in our timeline, but less bands similar to Cream or Blind Faith. Again, bands more progressive than Cream or Blind Faith might have their music distributed on bootleg records that have been etched into used xray film, but generally they are not well known beyond certain college campuses. In the 80s there would be no Madonna, but probably be several sanitized performers similar to Cyndi lauper, Whitney Houston, or even a straight Elton John.
Another factor in the development in the entertainment industry would be the fact that Germany was not knocked flat as it was in our timeline, and an undefeated Germany would very likely serve as a catalyst for the development of home consumer electronics. I think that color television similar to the Sony Trinitron would be common by the late 50s, and that the first home computers would start appearing during the early 1970s. I think that the development of the Internet would be very different, with the governments of the US, and Germany, much more interested in controlling content than they are in our timeline. Perhaps in order to launch a website someone would first have to obtain a license similar to ham radio operator's license before being allowed to publish things online.
Throughout the 1960s through the 80s I think that there would be a lot of television situation comedies similar to Hogan's Heroes, Mork & Mindy, and the Odd Couple, but not so many shows similar to All in the Family, The Brady Bunch (a show about a mixed family resulting from divorce) or Three's Company. However, I think that there would be plenty of gritty cop dramas similar to Adam 12, The Streets of San Francisco, or maybe even a sanitized version of Charlie's Angels. Government funded educational television programming would also be common.
In our timeline it wasn't until the early 1970s when it became common place for TV shows to depict married couples sleeping in the same bed. I think that it would take another 25 years or longer for television producers in the 191 universe to show the same thing due to the conservative nature of society.
I was imagining an analogue of Hugh Hefner creating a men's magazine similar to Playboy in the 191 universe, but when his magazine goes on sale in former CS states which have been readmitted into the Union, people living in those areas are so outraged that they riot and burn down the stores where the magazines are being sold. From that point on men's magazines are only sold through subscription, and are delivered via mail in a heavy duty manila envelope.
I think that something similar to Star Trek would exist, but rather than being on a mission of exploration, the ship is instead on a constant mission to protect the boundaries of the United Space Republic from an alien race whose collectivist culture strongly resembles Marxism. Almost every episode is similar to a WWII submarine movie in our timeline in which the crew is running an enemy gauntlet or is hunting enemy shipping.
I think that an analogue of Star Wars might exist, but due to cultural differences it would be told from the Empire's point of view. In this version of events Princess Leia is a spoiled rich girl who rebels against her families traditional values, joins a terrorist organization, and then uses her charms to seduce a young farm boy to join her band of terrorists. This version of Princess Leia wears a belly shirt, has a gold chain connecting her ear to her nose ring, habitually ingests a spice to enhance her Force abilities, and shaves half of her head. The terrorists destroy a government installation designed to distribute emergency aid and peacekeeping troops purely for the cause of promoting anarchy in the galaxy. It is not until after the Peace Star has been destroyed that Luke learns that he has been tricked, and that both he and Leia are related to a popular senator.
Might be the wrong thread to ask this, but what about fashion? Like, would the miniskirt still exist? What would counterculture look like, actually, if one would exist at all?
In general, I tend to imagine a bit of a role-reversal between European and U.S. Culture for some ideas relating to fashion, pop culture, counter-culture, music, literature, etc.
What I mean by that is that, in TL-191, Europe is more socially conservative than the U.S. would be, at least by comparison.
TL-191 USA would be more left-leaning/liberal and there would be an earlier introduction to styles of fashions that, in OTL, would have been considered scandalous.
If there is a counterculture, which I am inclined to believe that there would be, it would not have the same connotation that it did in OTL.
Instead of a bunch of hippies who spread peace and love, along with sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll while sticking it to The Man, there would be a bunch of ultranationalist-influenced, far-right political individuals going against The Progressive Establishment in the United States.
I could be wrong, though. Ultranationalism would technically be discredited since the SGW, so there would have to be some other type of ideology that would give energy to counterculture. Maybe Communism trying to creep up somewhere else, if it was never killed off in Russia?
The Automobile from the beginning of "Curtain Call" (the image taken from the modern video game adaptation) highlighting the mood of the movie as the old west slowly begins to fade with the ongoing march of civilization. This theme would become more apparent with the army using weapons of the First Great War, the use of telephones and the zeppelin and biplanes being spotted in the distance at the end. Jonas Marston's motives would be gradual revealed throughout the movie via flashbacks and pieces of dialogue.
Lee Van Cleef as "Tomas Drake" the main antagonist of the film. A former Canadian soldier turned bandit and insurgent, alongside his fellow comrades. Following the loss of his country and family in the war. Becoming broken by the end of the movie after his gang had been wiped out by Marston and the US Army "I never meant to hurt your boy Marston it was supposed to be simple get the supplies and get out, nobody was supposed to get hurt but the shooting started... doesn't matter now though my country's gone, along with the closest thing I had to family left and for what? The gold's out of my reach now... it's just me and you that's left."
Thomas Selleck as George Hausner a former outlaw who and ally of Jonas Marston. Who realizing his days are numbered wishing to acquire the same stash of gold the Drake Gang is after, in hopes of retiring. Originally discovered and hidden by a late British officer who discovered it out on the Yukon. In the epilogue set thirty years later it is revealed that he managed to fake his death and take the gold for himself, leaving a small amount for Jonas in the mail and retiring to a quiet estate in Latin America.
Has anyone given any thought to what professional sports might be like in the 191 universe following In at the Death?
Well, I think that post-war television executives would quickly figure out that baseball is the perfect game to put on television due to the fact that you can squeeze an advertisement break between each of the nine innings comprising most baseball games, announcers can hawk products between pitches, and most of the action can be covered by just three or four cameras placed at strategic locations around the field. So, I think that it is a pretty safe bet that baseball would go from being a quaint New England college game to being a national sport during the late 1940s and early 50s, and that by middle of the 1950s, at the latest, there would be professional leagues with team franchises located in most US cities, possibly in Mexico and Canada as well. In my opinion, there is simply too much easy money to be made in televised baseball for this not to happen.
I think it is a give that US style gridiron football (NFL) would be an extremely popular televised sport, but what about Confederate style football, which based upon the descriptions of it given in the books, seems to be more similar to British rugby or Australian Rules Football than it does to US style football. Would Confederate style football survive the demise of the Confederacy and go onto become widespread across all of the US, or would it be forgotten in the face of big business televised US football? I tend to think that there might be amateur Confederate style football leagues across the New South, and maybe even some college level teams, but I'm not sure that there is enough room for both US gridiron football and Confederate style football to both be major national sports? Well, maybe if basketball never catches on, and if the playing seasons don't overlap each other too much, then maybe it is possible to have both styles of football at the same time?
Also, I think that there would be a great deal of improvement in automotive technology following the end of the Second Great War, (spin off technology) mainly because Germany isn't knocked flat as in our timeline, and as a result, auto racing might become an even more exciting and popular sport than it is in our timeline. Additionally, I don't see an Arab oil embargo happening in the 1970s of the 191 universe, as it did in our universe, so maybe performance car culture would be a little more common than in our timeline? In our timeline Ford produced a monstrous station-wagon called the Country Squire which came equipped with 7.5 liter (460 Cubic Inch) V8 engine. But what if no one cared about fuel economy or emissions? I was imagining the Ford Motor Company of the 191 universe producing a car similar to the 1973 Country Squire station wagon, with a 8.4 liter V8, but this car also has a dual rear axles, (two sets of rear wheels - one ahead of the other) with a smaller helper engine located in the rear of the car to provide extra power during towing or heavy acceleration. Of course by the 1990s or so air pollution would be so bad that the government would have to take drastic steps to clean up the air. Of course, highway accidents in the 191 universe might be somewhat more deadly than in our timeline.
Would there be a miniskirt? Why not? But I don't think that a women's swimsuit would be called "the bikini" in the 191 universe, mainly because the 191 US didn't detonate a superbomb on Bikini Atoll in the South Pacific in 1946. Maybe a women's skimpy swimsuit would be called a "Lesser Antilles" or "A South Ascension" named after one of the atomic tests carried out on those islands in the South Atlantic.
Well, I think that post-war television executives would quickly figure out that baseball is the perfect game to put on television due to the fact that you can squeeze an advertisement break between each of the nine innings comprising most baseball games, announcers can hawk products between pitches, and most of the action can be covered by just three or four cameras placed at strategic locations around the field. So, I think that it is a pretty safe bet that baseball would go from being a quaint New England college game to being a national sport during the late 1940s and early 50s, and that by middle of the 1950s, at the latest, there would be professional leagues with team franchises located in most US cities, possibly in Mexico and Canada as well. In my opinion, there is simply too much easy money to be made in televised baseball for this not to happen.
I think it is a give that US style gridiron football (NFL) would be an extremely popular televised sport, but what about Confederate style football, which based upon the descriptions of it given in the books, seems to be more similar to British rugby or Australian Rules Football than it does to US style football. Would Confederate style football survive the demise of the Confederacy and go onto become widespread across all of the US, or would it be forgotten in the face of big business televised US football? I tend to think that there might be amateur Confederate style football leagues across the New South, and maybe even some college level teams, but I'm not sure that there is enough room for both US gridiron football and Confederate style football to both be major national sports? Well, maybe if basketball never catches on, and if the playing seasons don't overlap each other too much, then maybe it is possible to have both styles of football at the same time?
Also, I think that there would be a great deal of improvement in automotive technology following the end of the Second Great War, (spin off technology) mainly because Germany isn't knocked flat as in our timeline, and as a result, auto racing might become an even more exciting and popular sport than it is in our timeline. Additionally, I don't see an Arab oil embargo happening in the 1970s of the 191 universe, as it did in our universe, so maybe performance car culture would be a little more common than in our timeline? In our timeline Ford produced a monstrous station-wagon called the Country Squire which came equipped with 7.5 liter (460 Cubic Inch) V8 engine. But what if no one cared about fuel economy or emissions? I was imagining the Ford Motor Company of the 191 universe producing a car similar to the 1973 Country Squire station wagon, with a 8.4 liter V8, but this car also has a dual rear axles, (two sets of rear wheels - one ahead of the other) with a smaller helper engine located in the rear of the car to provide extra power during towing or heavy acceleration. Of course by the 1990s or so air pollution would be so bad that the government would have to take drastic steps to clean up the air. Of course, highway accidents in the 191 universe might be somewhat more deadly than in our timeline.
Would there be a miniskirt? Why not? But I don't think that a women's swimsuit would be called "the bikini" in the 191 universe, mainly because the 191 US didn't detonate a superbomb on Bikini Atoll in the South Pacific in 1946. Maybe a women's skimpy swimsuit would be called a "Lesser Antilles" or "A South Ascension" named after one of the atomic tests carried out on those islands in the South Atlantic.
I dunno why, but "Lesser Antilles" and "Southern Ascension" sound a tad bit dirty... Maybe that's the idea?
Not as dirty as Hilton Head Island, or Martha's Vineyard. Just kidding. Anyway, I remember reading that there are two mountains (twin peaks) on St. Lucia Island in the Caribbean called the Pitons, so maybe a skimpy women's swimsuit might be called a Piton, a Lucia, or even a Caribbean swimsuit.
I guess that the video game adaption of "Curtain Call" is supposed to be the TL-191 version of Red Dead Redemption, but I´m more interested of what a more direct TL-191 analogue would look like. For instance, would New Austin be a Confederate State? And would the premise be John Marston being forced to clean the two neighboring countries (Mexico and the CSA) of his former fellow outlaws to prevent tensions between the nations? Heck, I honestly think there's a lot to dig in concerning that game!
So since Mr. Rogers was born and lived in Pittsburgh I'm wondering how different he'd be in timeline 191.