Pop-culture in TL-191

Would could be the more notable of these rants by a War and Remembrance Hit... I mean Featherston.

Maybe an adaptation of this scene from Settling Accounts: The Grapple?

"‘Goddammit, why can’t we keep up?’ Jake Featherston snarled. ‘We were ahead when the war started.’ ‘We don’t have enough engineers, sir. We don’t have enough factory hands,’ Forrest said. ‘Damn near every healthy white man in the country from eighteen to fifty’s in uniform.’ ‘Women are taking up some of the slack in the factories – more every day, in fact.’ Forrest was angry he’d taken too long to see how important that was. He didn’t like giving women such jobs. In the long run, it would twist the CSA out of the shape he wanted the country to have. But if you got smashed in the short run, the long run didn’t matter. So women went to work in war plants, and he’d worry about what it all meant later – if there was a later. ‘We still need more bodies in there, sir.’ Forrest took a deep breath. ‘If there was any way we could get more use out of our niggers—’ ‘No,’ Featherston said in a low, deadly voice. ‘The niggers are Party business. They’re my business. Don’t you go sticking your nose in where it doesn’t belong. We are gonna come out of this war nigger-free. Nigger-free, you hear me?’"
 
What Disney movies would be made ITTL?

Assuming the Walt Disney Company somehow comes into existence (search my name in this thread and you'll find my post explaining how the Great War would've changed Walt Disney from the man we know him as), I would not be surprised if Disney took a shot at adapting Wagnerian operas in animation. Yeah, it's weird, but think of it like Fantasia, just more German-influenced and controversial because of Wagner's virulent anti-Semitism.
 
This question may be a more general TL 191 question, but I thought it would be fitting to put it here: What would Jake Featherston's reputation be like (outside of North America) compared to Hitler in OTL?

I ask this because in our timeline, Hitler basically put the west in an identity crisis with his brutality and completely changed the way people thought about things like racism in the west. But would Featherston really have as much of an impact ITTLs pop-culture as Hitler in OTL? I get the feeling that countries like Germany would still be appalled by the Population Reduction, but view as a more localized event due to it being focused on the Confederacy itself.

My point is, would Featherston have the same impact as Hitler outside of North America? Because I'm sure that he will definitely have the same impact on the US as Hitler did IOTL, but I'm more curious about the rest of the world.
I don't think so, mostly because the first shots of the Second Great War were fired in Europe by France declaring war on Germany, not Featherston initiating Operation Blackbeard.

I don't even think the Population Reduction would be enough for Featherston to be loathed worldwide and I'll explain why.

Let's compare what Featherston did to blacks in the Confederacy to Germany's genocide of the Herero and Nama peoples. The latter, while it certainly happened, is not widely discussed, because it happened outside of the European field of view, as it were. It didn't happen in Europe, it happened in some colony that no one cared about in the early 20th Century. This is surprising, given how some of the racial theories that led to the Holocaust were born in Africa.

Similarly, the Population Reduction didn't happen in Europe, it happened in a place which could be considered a British client state, out of sight and out of mind for most people in the world.

Also, the Population Reduction lacks the geographical reach of the Holocaust. The Holocaust annihlated entire Jewish communities across Europe, the Jewish community in Poland and Thessalonika, Greece, comes to mind, while the Reduction was mostly limited to blacks in the Confederacy, except for at least one death camp in Haiti, a country that I doubt most 20th Century Europeans would've thought twice about. This would've been like the Armenian Genocide. Yes, it happened, but it mostly happened in a particular country and against a minority group that no one in Europe really cared about. There's a reason why no one knows who the three Pashas are, outside of people on this site, because nobody talks about the Armenian Genocide.

Also, the Holocaust happened in a time where we were slowly realizing that perhaps racial prejudice should be a thing of the past. In this timeline, Germany won the Great War and as a result, still holds Namibia, where in OTL, the first genocide of the 20th Century happened. Do you really think the Germans will bring much attention to the Reduction with that big blotch on their colonial record?

And of course, the American Front of the Second Great War, to the other European powers, was a insignifcant front, the fourth chapter in a epoch of mutual national hatred which while it would concern the USA, does not concern the other foreign powers. Again, the main front of the Second Great War is Europe. If anything, in Europe, they'll focus on Russia's atrocities towards the Jews of Eastern Europe, not whatever is going on in North America.




A simplistic caricature of Jake Featherston is guaranteed.

(Seriously, in War and Remembrance, Hitler is screaming his head off half the time)
Since the official story ended in 1945, Featherston’s reputation outside of North America could go either way.

This is why I’ve tried to include extra ideas and possibly rewrite some of the things that Dr. Turtledove chose, regardless of accuracy, in order to make Featherston well-known throughout the world.

Some examples:
I like the idea of both German and U.S. propaganda using what happened to the Black population in the CSA as a rally cry for the Black Africans to rise up against Britain and their allies.

Another is having the CSA invade the USA about a month and a half earlier in 1941, making them the chief instigator of the Second Great War.
 
I like the idea of both German and U.S. propaganda using what happened to the Black population in the CSA as a rally cry for the Black Africans to rise up against Britain and their allies.

America, maybe. As I said before, I don't see Germany touching the Reduction with a five-foot pole because of what they did in Namibia. It would make them look like the worst kind of hypocrites.
 
America, maybe. As I said before, I don't see Germany touching the Reduction with a five-foot pole because of what they did in Namibia. It would make them look like the worst kind of hypocrites.

There's a head-canon story I've yet to write that describes an event where the USA threatens to superbomb South Africa for its attempt to pass apartheid laws during the late 1940's. (It's more of an empty threat, but the South Africans don't know that.)

The events of Namibia are brought up and used against the Germans as "proof" that they are incapable/unwilling of protecting their Black colonial subjects.
This causes a lot of civil unrest in Mittelafrika and is considered a diplomatic embarrassment against the Imperial German government and its citizens back home.

How plausible all of this can happen is up for debate, but I'd like to imagine it that it does, regardless.
 
This causes a lot of civil unrest in Mittelafrika and is considered a diplomatic embarrassment against the Imperial German government and its citizens back home.

And so it should. Also, remember that in this timeline, Germany's probably using the same divide and conquer tactics it did in their colonies in OTL - dividing previously homogeneous racial groups into artificial divisions. That policy was the first step towards the Rwandan Genocide in OTL.


How plausible all of this can happen is up for debate, but I'd like to imagine it that it does, regardless.

In a world where Germany had the capacity to drop not one, but five superbombs, in the same war despite it being smaller than the United States, I wouldn't worry about plausibility too much.
 
I think that due to the fact that Featherston was more a "local" problem , separated from the European theater, mean that he might be less well known world-wide.
My take on it? I'd imagine there'd be criticism of the UK and France for maintaining their support of Featherston even after finding out about the Population Reduction, and a general reevaluation of attitudes towards blacks by the "civilized" peoples of the world because (if for no other reason) they would not want to be compared to "Ignorant, uncouth, hillbilly Confederates." The CSA becomes the "problem child" in the historical memory of the Anglo-French Sphere, the one who put on the affectations of "civilized" while perpetuating terrible barbarities.
Worse still, it gives the Imperialist histories of the UK and France a deflection, as anyone who brings up any crimes against colonial populations committed by them, they can just point at the CSA and say "at least we weren't as bad as them!"


sort of in the manner that the aftermath of the Holocaust made "Antisemitic" a damning label in the west as folks didn't want to be compared to the Nazis.
 
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I don't think so, mostly because the first shots of the Second Great War were fired in Europe by France declaring war on Germany, not Featherston initiating Operation Blackbeard.

I don't even think the Population Reduction would be enough for Featherston to be loathed worldwide and I'll explain why.

Let's compare what Featherston did to blacks in the Confederacy to Germany's genocide of the Herero and Nama peoples. The latter, while it certainly happened, is not widely discussed, because it happened outside of the European field of view, as it were. It didn't happen in Europe, it happened in some colony that no one cared about in the early 20th Century. This is surprising, given how some of the racial theories that led to the Holocaust were born in Africa.

Similarly, the Population Reduction didn't happen in Europe, it happened in a place which could be considered a British client state, out of sight and out of mind for most people in the world.

Also, the Population Reduction lacks the geographical reach of the Holocaust. The Holocaust annihlated entire Jewish communities across Europe, the Jewish community in Poland and Thessalonika, Greece, comes to mind, while the Reduction was mostly limited to blacks in the Confederacy, except for at least one death camp in Haiti, a country that I doubt most 20th Century Europeans would've thought twice about. This would've been like the Armenian Genocide. Yes, it happened, but it mostly happened in a particular country and against a minority group that no one in Europe really cared about. There's a reason why no one knows who the three Pashas are, outside of people on this site, because nobody talks about the Armenian Genocide.

Also, the Holocaust happened in a time where we were slowly realizing that perhaps racial prejudice should be a thing of the past. In this timeline, Germany won the Great War and as a result, still holds Namibia, where in OTL, the first genocide of the 20th Century happened. Do you really think the Germans will bring much attention to the Reduction with that big blotch on their colonial record?

And of course, the American Front of the Second Great War, to the other European powers, was a insignifcant front, the fourth chapter in a epoch of mutual national hatred which while it would concern the USA, does not concern the other foreign powers. Again, the main front of the Second Great War is Europe. If anything, in Europe, they'll focus on Russia's atrocities towards the Jews of Eastern Europe, not whatever is going on in North America.




A simplistic caricature of Jake Featherston is guaranteed.

(Seriously, in War and Remembrance, Hitler is screaming his head off half the time)
I would argue that the British would have some stake in the events going on in North America, as the 1GW Canadian front and its subsequent loss denied the UK not only one of their major Colonial/Commonwealth assets, but also manpower and resources vitally needed in Europe in both wars. there's also the extended British presence in South America: their supply convoys from Argentina and their vital necessity to keeping the UK in both of the wars are commented on several times by the Naval characters in the series. Featherston also put pressure on Churchill to support the Canadian rebels in "Drive to the East" to alleviate some pressure on his own forces by drawing US assets away.
we learn that the UK knows of the population reductions and is, to be very tame, off-put by them, but they need the CSA in the war as much as the CSA needs them, so they keep quiet about it. This could come back to bite them socially in the wake of the war as continued British weakening on the world stage no doubt rears its head in Africa.
 
I would argue that the British would have some stake in the events going on in North America, as the 1GW Canadian front and its subsequent loss denied the UK not only one of their major Colonial/Commonwealth assets, but also manpower and resources vitally needed in Europe in both wars. there's also the extended British presence in South America: their supply convoys from Argentina and their vital necessity to keeping the UK in both of the wars are commented on several times by the Naval characters in the series.

Yeah, but even then, their concerns are going to be the mostly white citizens of what used to be Canada. As America-British relations soften somewhat in the face of an overly aggressive Japan post-SGW, I think that would dominate the discussions between the two powers, not the Population Reduction.


we learn that the UK knows of the population reductions and is, to be very tame, off-put by them, but they need the CSA in the war as much as the CSA needs them, so they keep quiet about it. This could come back to bite them socially in the wake of the war as continued British weakening on the world stage no doubt rears its head in Africa.

It would be the equivalent of both TTL and OTL where the Armenian Genocide was taking place, but the Central Powers either took no notice or were very mute about it.
 
crimson_skies.gif

A boxart to the 2000 video game Crimson Skies, which was an arcade simulator aerial combat game which was set in an alternate timeline where the First Great War had dragged on for another year, which would result in weakening both the USA and CSA as well as Jake Featherston dying in 1918 on the Maryland Front, thus causing instability in both countries. The two nations would then collapse when the Great Depression came into full swing in the early 1930s, and sky travel become the dominant form of transportation. As a result of this, sky pirates would thrive in this new world, and by 1937, North America would become a hotbed of war with varying sky pirate gangs and air militias. The first game would be released for PC in 2000 which was followed two years later by a Playbox exclusive would be released titled Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge.
 
crimson_skies.gif

A boxart to the 2000 video game Crimson Skies, which was an arcade simulator aerial combat game which was set in an alternate timeline where the First Great War had dragged on for another year, which would result in weakening both the USA and CSA as well as Jake Featherston dying in 1918 on the Maryland Front, thus causing instability in both countries. The two nations would then collapse when the Great Depression came into full swing in the early 1930s, and sky travel become the dominant form of transportation. As a result of this, sky pirates would thrive in this new world, and by 1937, North America would become a hotbed of war with varying sky pirate gangs and air militias. The first game would be released for PC in 2000 which was followed two years later by a Playbox exclusive would be released titled Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge.
What would be the nations of this North America?
 
While FPS games are on the mind, I do wonder how the Battlefield games would be like, mainly the most recent two? DICE has a reputation for being Amerocentric, but they're a European company iirc, so would this still happen in TL 191? Also, what would the war stories be like for BF1 and BFV ittl? For the former, I remember some people were echoing complaints about a lack of Central Powers campaigns, so maybe ITTL, it would be a lack of Entente campaigns?
Also, what would make for some interesting "Untold stories of the Second Great War" that could be used for BFV ittl?
 
While FPS games are on the mind, I do wonder how the Battlefield games would be like, mainly the most recent two? DICE has a reputation for being Amerocentric, but they're a European company iirc, so would this still happen in TL 191? Also, what would the war stories be like for BF1 and BFV ittl? For the former, I remember some people were echoing complaints about a lack of Central Powers campaigns, so maybe ITTL, it would be a lack of Entente campaigns?
Also, what would make for some interesting "Untold stories of the Second Great War" that could be used for BFV ittl?
One idea would a soldier (either US Army or Russian) on the Alaskan Front as well a mission about the Greenland Front.
 
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A T-Doll (or referred to as fans as a Rifouse) carrying the Tredegar Automatic Rifle from the French produced mobile-phone game called Première Ligne de Filles or Girls Frontline. The game would first be released in 2016 for both iOS and Android in France, later in 2017 would be released in England, Italy, Switzerland, and Belgium, and by 2018 for the rest of Europe. The game is a strategy role-playing game set in the future where the player controls echelons of androids, known in universe as T-Dolls, each carrying a distinctive firearm. Some of the notable guns in-game are the FAMAS, Erma MP-2000, Tredegar Automatic Rifle M1937, Type-14, MAB 38, and the M1986 Assault Carbine. An animé television series adaptation made by CAT is expected to premiere sometime in the summer of 2021.

Fans of Première Ligne de Filles have developed their own term for the characters in the game, for which this term is Rifouse*.

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* = The term Rifouse is derived from the popular term 'l éspouse used by animé fans, which in turn 'l éspouse is the French word for wife.
 
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Also, what would the war stories be like for BF1 and BFV ittl? For the former, I remember some people were echoing complaints about a lack of Central Powers campaigns, so maybe ITTL, it would be a lack of Entente campaigns?

For BF1, I doubt it'd be anything bigger than a location change. Maybe swap out the Western Front for the Roanoke Front? There would probably be no Gallipoli campaign, which was always my favourite war story. I wonder what would take the place of the Arditi campaign (You know, the one where you wear armour and have a minigun, which was nothing like the actual Arditi?)

Also, what would make for some interesting "Untold stories of the Second Great War" that could be used for BFV ittl?

I could potentially see a war story involving Haitians fighting against the Confederate occupation of their country or maybe the Norwegians fighting against the British invasion of their country? (Let's hope that in this timeline, DICE doesn't screw with the history like they did in OTL)
 
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