Pop-culture in TL-191

Now for me to brainstorm the TL 191 counterparts to the Call of Duty Games:

World at War
Call of Duty World at War was the 5th entry in the popular Call of Duty series. The game takes place through the POV of two soldiers in the Second Great War. The first is Pioner Müller and a squadron in the Imperial German Army fighting in Eastern Europe against the Russian Empire (A significant departure from the usual focus on the western front against France and Britain). On the other end is Private David Peters on the American Front, who teams up with Sergeant Victor Ryans after meeting him in Pittsburgh and later taking the fight to the Freedomites in the siege of Atlanta in brutal urban warfare. There is also one mission where the player takes the reigns of an Imperial German air force gunner named Loewe fighting the British Navy in the north sea.

Also notable is the bonus mode "Freedomite Zombies," which is set in a side story involving a battle for survival against Freedomite Zombies where 4 players can play as a gung-ho American soldier, an Alcoholic German soldier, a Russian officer, and a mad Confederate scientist.
 
One thing that would certainly different here is how different cultures consider taboo thanks to the events that unfolded in TL-191.

For one thing, Joking about Superbombs would certainly viewed as a Taboo subject in the West, much how jokes about Nukes are viewed in Japan.
This does make me wonder two things:
1. What would the TL 191 version of Godzilla be like? I imagine it would be made in a country other than Japan seeing as Japan was one of the only countries to not have been hit by a superbomb during the SGW. This makes me wonder which country would make it and how it would be made differently in said country. For example, it would probably have some difference in ideas if made in a country like Germany or America compared to Britain.
2. What would the film industry in Japan be like after the SGW?
 
This does make me wonder two things:
1. What would the TL 191 version of Godzilla be like? I imagine it would be made in a country other than Japan seeing as Japan was one of the only countries to not have been hit by a superbomb during the SGW. This makes me wonder which country would make it and how it would be made differently in said country. For example, it would probably have some difference in ideas if made in a country like Germany or America compared to Britain.
2. What would the film industry in Japan be like after the SGW?
A lot of TL-191 fan works tend to have Britain become the stand-in for post-War Japan, so seems like a reasonable bet post-War British media might take on a distinct anti-nuclear message, monsters included.

As for Japanese media, probably a lot of propagandic war movies about how they freed Asia from European colonisation and the importance of Pan-Asian unity (with Japan at the helm, of course)
 
This question may be a more general TL 191 question, but I thought it would be fitting to put it here: What would Jake Featherston's reputation be like (outside of North America) compared to Hitler in OTL?

I ask this because in our timeline, Hitler basically put the west in an identity crisis with his brutality and completely changed the way people thought about things like racism in the west. But would Featherston really have as much of an impact ITTLs pop-culture as Hitler in OTL? I get the feeling that countries like Germany would still be appalled by the Population Reduction, but view as a more localized event due to it being focused on the Confederacy itself.

My point is, would Featherston have the same impact as Hitler outside of North America? Because I'm sure that he will definitely have the same impact on the US as Hitler did IOTL, but I'm more curious about the rest of the world.
 
I think that due to the fact that Featherston was more a "local" problem , separated from the European theater, mean that he might be less well known world-wide.
 
My point is, would Featherston have the same impact as Hitler outside of North America?

I don't think so, mostly because the first shots of the Second Great War were fired in Europe by France declaring war on Germany, not Featherston initiating Operation Blackbeard.

I don't even think the Population Reduction would be enough for Featherston to be loathed worldwide and I'll explain why.

Let's compare what Featherston did to blacks in the Confederacy to Germany's genocide of the Herero and Nama peoples. The latter, while it certainly happened, is not widely discussed, because it happened outside of the European field of view, as it were. It didn't happen in Europe, it happened in some colony that no one cared about in the early 20th Century. This is surprising, given how some of the racial theories that led to the Holocaust were born in Africa.

Similarly, the Population Reduction didn't happen in Europe, it happened in a place which could be considered a British client state, out of sight and out of mind for most people in the world.

Also, the Population Reduction lacks the geographical reach of the Holocaust. The Holocaust annihlated entire Jewish communities across Europe, the Jewish community in Poland and Thessalonika, Greece, comes to mind, while the Reduction was mostly limited to blacks in the Confederacy, except for at least one death camp in Haiti, a country that I doubt most 20th Century Europeans would've thought twice about. This would've been like the Armenian Genocide. Yes, it happened, but it mostly happened in a particular country and against a minority group that no one in Europe really cared about. There's a reason why no one knows who the three Pashas are, outside of people on this site, because nobody talks about the Armenian Genocide.

Also, the Holocaust happened in a time where we were slowly realizing that perhaps racial prejudice should be a thing of the past. In this timeline, Germany won the Great War and as a result, still holds Namibia, where in OTL, the first genocide of the 20th Century happened. Do you really think the Germans will bring much attention to the Reduction with that big blotch on their colonial record?

And of course, the American Front of the Second Great War, to the other European powers, was a insignifcant front, the fourth chapter in a epoch of mutual national hatred which while it would concern the USA, does not concern the other foreign powers. Again, the main front of the Second Great War is Europe. If anything, in Europe, they'll focus on Russia's atrocities towards the Jews of Eastern Europe, not whatever is going on in North America.



I wonder what would these two books as well their miniseries adaptations would look like in TL-191?

A simplistic caricature of Jake Featherston is guaranteed.

(Seriously, in War and Remembrance, Hitler is screaming his head off half the time)
 
I don't think so, mostly because the first shots of the Second Great War were fired in Europe by France declaring war on Germany, not Featherston initiating Operation Blackbeard.

I don't even think the Population Reduction would be enough for Featherston to be loathed worldwide and I'll explain why.

Let's compare what Featherston did to blacks in the Confederacy to Germany's genocide of the Herero and Nama peoples. The latter, while it certainly happened, is not widely discussed, because it happened outside of the European field of view, as it were. It didn't happen in Europe, it happened in some colony that no one cared about in the early 20th Century. This is surprising, given how some of the racial theories that led to the Holocaust were born in Africa.

Similarly, the Population Reduction didn't happen in Europe, it happened in a place which could be considered a British client state, out of sight and out of mind for most people in the world.

Also, the Population Reduction lacks the geographical reach of the Holocaust. The Holocaust annihlated entire Jewish communities across Europe, the Jewish community in Poland and Thessalonika, Greece, comes to mind, while the Reduction was mostly limited to blacks in the Confederacy, except for at least one death camp in Haiti, a country that I doubt most 20th Century Europeans would've thought twice about. This would've been like the Armenian Genocide. Yes, it happened, but it mostly happened in a particular country and against a minority group that no one in Europe really cared about. There's a reason why no one knows who the three Pashas are, outside of people on this site, because nobody talks about the Armenian Genocide.

Also, the Holocaust happened in a time where we were slowly realizing that perhaps racial prejudice should be a thing of the past. In this timeline, Germany won the Great War and as a result, still holds Namibia, where in OTL, the first genocide of the 20th Century happened. Do you really think the Germans will bring much attention to the Reduction with that big blotch on their colonial record?

And of course, the American Front of the Second Great War, to the other European powers, was a insignifcant front, the fourth chapter in a epoch of mutual national hatred which while it would concern the USA, does not concern the other foreign powers. Again, the main front of the Second Great War is Europe. If anything, in Europe, they'll focus on Russia's atrocities towards the Jews of Eastern Europe, not whatever is going on in North America.




A simplistic caricature of Jake Featherston is guaranteed.

(Seriously, in War and Remembrance, Hitler is screaming his head off half the time)
On that note on the end, in your view do you see France doing the same thing to their Jews in Metro France, North Africa and occupied territories, as well as toward Protestants, political opponents, and other "undesirables"?
 
On that note on the end, in your view do you see France doing the same thing to their Jews in Metro France, North Africa and occupied territories, as well as toward Protestants, political opponents, and other "undesirables"?

I can definitely see Action Franciase bringing back anti-Semitic laws from before the French Revolution (banning Jews from making loans, etc), but I am not sure about outright exterminating them. In OTL, we've seen that the French police were quite willing to partake in the 'relocation' of Jews from France to Auschwitz, so it's definetely possible that concentration camps could be set up in France and there were virulent anti-Semites in the French government, including Louis Darqueir de Pellepoix, who was VIchy France's minister for Jewish affairs and who became a Holocaust denier after the war. In 1937, he was bold enough to say this

"We must, with all urgency, resolve the Jewish problem, whether by expulsion, or massacre."

So, I don't think there would be much sympathy for the Jews in the Franciase government if they mysteriously 'disappeared', but would they go through with it? Hard to say. I should add that Pellepoix was only put in that position to please the Nazis, who thought his predecessor, Xavier Vallat, also a rabid anti-Semite, was too moderate.

Would they go after Protestants? Probably not with the same intensity as they would do with the Jews. After all, at the dawn of the 20th Century, a third of Parisian bankers were Jewish, so going after them would probably be a higher priority to the government than worrying about the Protestants. They would make life hell for the Protestants, but not to the extent as they would for the Jews

Now, the other 'undesirables'. What do you mean by undesirables? Are you talking about France's non-white colonial population, like members of the Tiraelleurs?
 
I can definitely see Action Franciase bringing back anti-Semitic laws from before the French Revolution (banning Jews from making loans, etc), but I am not sure about outright exterminating them. In OTL, we've seen that the French police were quite willing to partake in the 'relocation' of Jews from France to Auschwitz, so it's definetely possible that concentration camps could be set up in France and there were virulent anti-Semites in the French government, including Louis Darqueir de Pellepoix, who was VIchy France's minister for Jewish affairs and who became a Holocaust denier after the war. In 1937, he was bold enough to say this



So, I don't think there would be much sympathy for the Jews in the Franciase government if they mysteriously 'disappeared', but would they go through with it? Hard to say. I should add that Pellepoix was only put in that position to please the Nazis, who thought his predecessor, Xavier Vallat, also a rabid anti-Semite, was too moderate.

Would they go after Protestants? Probably not with the same intensity as they would do with the Jews. After all, at the dawn of the 20th Century, a third of Parisian bankers were Jewish, so going after them would probably be a higher priority to the government than worrying about the Protestants. They would make life hell for the Protestants, but not to the extent as they would for the Jews

Now, the other 'undesirables'. What do you mean by undesirables? Are you talking about France's non-white colonial population, like members of the Tiraelleurs?
Oh, like Roma, Freemasons, Bonapartists, Legitamists, Spanish exiles, mixed Jewish-Christian families, disabled and mentally ill, etc. So a plethora of potential groups that'd face persecution. On the latter, I could see Alexis Carrel leading a euthanasia program like he did IOTL for the Vichy Regime. As Marlowski and I have thought, they'd probably more prefer "extermination through labor" than outright massacring them at first once the Second Great War gets into gear. Pogroms could happen to a certain extent. The Actionist regime will be making them "useful" until they're no more in various industries. Mentioned a few more classes of political opponents in this one I realized. By the way, if Darquier has a place ITTL, it'll be the same in overseeing the roundup, deportation, and murder of the Action Francaise's "undesirables".
 
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I have an idea for an in-universe french alternate history novel written in the 80s where a clique of ultra-nationalists somehow manage seize control of France during the chaos of the immediate aftermath of the SGW. They basically turn France into TNO Omsk in there irrational and completely fucking insane quest to finally have their revenge against Germany. Clearly fourth time's the charm.

It will be commentating on how ultimately self-destructive revanchism was for France and will be written as a massive fuck you too a neo-fascist party that would be operating at the time.

If anyone wants to use this concept go right ahead.
 
Oh, like Roma, Freemasons, Bonapartists, Legitamists, Spanish exiles, mixed Jewish-Christian families, disabled and mentally ill, etc. So a plethora of potential groups that'd face persecution. On the latter, I could see Alexis Carrel leading a euthanasia program like he did IOTL for the Vichy Regime. As Marlowski and I have thought, they'd probably more prefer "extermination thorough labor" than outright massacring them at first. Making them "useful" until they're no more in various industries.

I would have to agree. They'd probably go easy on the monarchists and save the worst of the work for the most 'anti-Catholic' groups - Roma, Freemasons and the Jews.

As for the eugenics program? Yeah, I can see that happening, but it would have to be in secret, though. In OTL, it didn't take long for the German public to determine what was happening to their relatives under the 'care' of the government's doctors.
 
Agree as well. Realizing it, this is more of a topic of discussion for Filling the Gaps.
I would have to agree. They'd probably go easy on the monarchists and save the worst of the work for the most 'anti-Catholic' groups - Roma, Freemasons and the Jews.

As for the eugenics program? Yeah, I can see that happening, but it would have to be in secret, though. In OTL, it didn't take long for the German public to determine what was happening to their relatives under the 'care' of the government's doctors.
 
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