Pop-culture in TL-191

What do you guys think Hogan's Heroes would be like ITTL?
I think there won´t be anything comparable in America. The special hate an ideological civil war create, let nothing good expect for the treatment of POW´s, at least nothing you write later a sitcom about.
In Europe it depends how the WK goes and how POW`s are treated. Let say there is a german sitcom in the sixties. Here I have the idea, that in the UOB camps were propably guarded by female militias. The joke could be, that there are "romantic collaboartion" between the german POW´s and their female british guards.
 
I think there won´t be anything comparable in America. The special hate an ideological civil war create, let nothing good expect for the treatment of POW´s, at least nothing you write later a sitcom about.
In Europe it depends how the WK goes and how POW`s are treated. Let say there is a german sitcom in the sixties. Here I have the idea, that in the UOB camps were propably guarded by female militias. The joke could be, that there are "romantic collaboartion" between the german POW´s and their female british guards.
Oh, wrong thread. I thought it was kaiserreich. Sorry!
 
Any ideas what Selena Gomez, Ariana Grande and Lucy Hale are doing ITTL?
Well they were all Born in former Confederate States, but by the time they were all Born its been a while since the end of the war so it really depends on what continuation timeline we are talking about. For Instance in After the End they'd grow up in a relatively prosperous country thats been Reunified for the entirety of their parents lives. So probably a fairly similar career Trajectory

On the Complete other end of the Spectrum in Yankee Spring they'd have all been born right before or right after the American Collapse in a newly Revived Confederacy propped up by Germany, only to come of age during the rise of Walter Peterson. Worst case scenario they end up local singers or doing ADR over German Sitcoms for Confederate TV. Best case scenario they end up meeting, starting an anti-peterson/authority in general punk rock band and being their timelines version of Pussy Riot.
 
I do wonder how the Southern Gothic genre would evolve in timeline 191 with the course that the South took. Since it probably would have taken off following the great war before being suppressed by the Featherstone regime and second great war.
 
European animé
part. 2

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Part 1.)

The 70's are often considered the Animé Golden Age for a good reason; the genre had matured from its humble beginning and the economy of the rebuilt France and England finally allowed for larger projects and a diversification in the studios, producers and distribution channels. While IAP (Image Animé Production, the studio of Jean Image) would emerge from the ''Verne Era'' stronger then ever, the Vichy Clique was no longer the only player on the field.

Indeed, while Vichy had survived the war (and post-war) intact, Paris had been devastated by German Sunbomb. While at first the German had no interest in rebuilding it, they would however clean the radioactive rubbles during the 50's. The new french state, coming out of German occupation during the 60's, decided otherwise and planned the reconstruction of ''La Ville Lumière''. The German empire, now fully secure as the sole power in Europe, agreed to finance the project (secretly) in exchange of France abandoning its plan to re-introduce mandatory military service and keeping a small professional army instead. While the Eiffel tower and the Notre-Dame Cathedral would be re-built as they were, the rest of the city was drastically changed and ''modernized". The new pre-planned city would be centered around a core of ''Cité citoyenne'', large habitation block linked to a subway (or light rail, or monorail) transportation system and having space inside dedicated to shops and services, creating mini ''self contained'' cities tied to the rest of the larger urban area and the country.

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Even the Elysée Palace and the Paris city hall had been rebuilt in a modernist style and planned to be tied to the future transportation system to allow easier access.

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The Elysée



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Paris city hall

Completed in the 70's, the new city of Paris was the perfect image of this new France: efficient, class, modern and wealthy. And in Paris, a new studio, strongly influenced by IAP animé, was born: Studio d'Animation Lutèce (or SAL). Young french animators, some even part of the Vichy clique, moved to the new and shiny Paris where the economical effervescence was providing ample possibilities and perspectives. One of them being the television, indeed, with the French economical miracle of the late 60's and 70's, the public possessing a television post exploded, especially in Paris, offering a new medium and economical model of production and distribution. SAL was quick to capitalize on such opportunity with cheap and quickly produced animation that could be made in a week and aired for the next one. Their first project, aired on France 1, the main french broadcasting corporation, was Super Robot; the story of a young robot boy being created by his ''father'', a scientist, to be a surrogate son for him, but evil militarists (not so subtlety a mix of Action-Française and German caricature) try to capture both the boy and the scientist to create an army of robot soldiers. But Super Robot would thwart them to keep peace for him, his family and the world.
The series would be an immediate success and Super Robot would end up having no less then 7 seasons, securing the animé style popularity in the public consciousness and as a prosperous venture with its derivative produces.

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In contrast to the Parisian renewal, the small provincial town of Vichy would not change a lot during and after the reconstruction and neither would IAP. Jean Image and his associated continued with their cinematographic continuity with the creation of a animé historical drama: The Rose of Versailles. The story of a young french noble girl falling in love with a royal guard coming from the regular citizen. Although they fell i love with each others, the French revolution would put their love in jeopardy as the royal guard loyalty began to shift toward the revolutionaries.
A great success, especially for the female audience, which began to get interest in the animé genre, this fracture between the style, with the new Parisian studios churning out futuristic action series while the Vichy clique continued their historical (or based on past novels) high quality movies, sparked for many the contrast between the flashy capital and the peaceful province.

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The Rose of Versailles English traduction/Photo of Vichy in 1950, one of the last remnant of the french classicist and Haussmann architecture style after the destruction of Paris
But this vision is slightly simple as in 1974, after the release of the Rose of Versailles, IAP would release their first tv series for Télé-France, the main regional broadcaster: Heidi, la fille des Alpes. Heidi was based on a Swiss novel and seemed to follow the trend of Vichy doing mostly adaptation but this series, following the ordinary life of, well, Heidi, was the sign of IAP realizing the changing grounds and adapting to the new market with a tv division. While not as popular as Super Robot, Heidi would be much more exported, notably in Switzerland but also in England, Quebec, Italy and Belgium. Heidi would be briefly broadcasted in Germany from 1975 to 1977 from Strassburg-Rundfunknetz but the lack of interest from the public and the low-cost of the project meant that Heidi was only subbed in german while the french voices were kept. Quite ironic considering that RCB (Radio Canton Berne), the swiss distributor, would offer a (helvetic)german full voice translation in 1976.

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Heidi opening/ Heidi DvD cover


In 1975, another studio, named Compagnie d'Animation Tricolor (or CAT) would debut in Paris with an ambitious animé series named ''Mimi et Compagnie'' (Mimi & co.). Drawn and pitched by Charline Gouzere, it would tell the story of Mimi France, an alien coming to earth, landing in France and being adopted by a couple of war refugees from Alsace (like Charline was). Mimi would then discover that she have supernatural powers in her teenage years and decide to protect not only her nation of adoption but also Earth. She would travel across the world and recruit girls ''with great potential'' to help her in her task. An enduring symbol of the female emancipation in this new France, Mimi & Co., despite the skimpy outfits, would broadcast a feminist message of women empowerment that would not only be popular with female audience but also male viewers thanks to its action-packed scenarios. Never acknowledged by either Charline Gouzere or CAT officials, many however suspected possible hint of romance between Mimi and Mariane, the first recruit of the series. Many, like the catholic church of France, would try to remove Mimi & Co. from the air based on this rumor, thanksfully unsuccessfully. While CAT would not have the same staying power as IAP or SAL, Mimi & Co. would outlive its producers in the public mind with no less then 5 seasons and 3 movies.

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The English DvD cover of the 5 seasons pack/ Mimi and Mariane/ Charline Gouzere
Far from being undone, or resting on their laurels, SAL would present in 1976 one of the more influential animé of its generation (already a tall order from those who produced Super Robot): Méca-Armure, la fabuleuse histoire de Protectron le robot sauveur de l'humaité (Mecha-armor, the fantastical story of Protectron the robot savior of mankind). The story was taken place in a earth devastated after the ''Sun-War'', where it's implied that a large war involving sunbombs destroyed all countries. Survivors live in a large underground complex and pilots regularly goes on the surface in their méca-armure (mechanised-armor/mecha-armor in english) to clean the radioactive rubles to one day reclaim the surface but also kill the mutated monsters that crawl in the ruins. One of the pilot, Adam, is given a brand new mecha-armor, Protectron, to help in this task. Adam would eventually discover that Protectron is not a simple armor but a thinking robot and he learn to work alongside the artificial intelligence instead of trying to control it in order to accomplish his missions. Clearly inspired by the cleaning effort of the old Paris by a special division of french Sapeur-pompier supported and financed by the German occupation, many suffering from radiation poisoning after hand, Méca-armure is considered to embodied the French trauma: suffering from sunbombs but trying to rebuild and putting their trust in high technology, using it for peace and prosperity instead of war. Like the previous Super Robot, Méca-armure would have subtle criticism of both Action-Française and the German army, as it's implied through the backstory that a rogue and revanchist part of a world power army would use sunbombs to avoid loosing the war against unspecified powers, resulting in the apocalypse.


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A poster of the series/ The actual animation

The same year, IAP would produce the television movies Arsène Lupin, from the character of Maurice Leblanc. Another literature adaptation, it would however be small feature movies destined not to be projected in cinemas (although many did anyways) but bought and presented by television broadcast medias. The 24 books of the ''Gentlemen-cambrioleur'' were adapted into either short or full length movies and distributed across France, either on Télé-France, France 1 or even France-Inter, the international channel aimed at the Francophonie. A great surprise coming from the Arsène Lupin series would be the broad audience, not only teenagers or young adult would watch these movies but adults as well, interested in the more ''mature'' classical stories instead of the ''juvenile action series''. A fair commercial success, Asène Lupin would however fail to mark the minds as deeply as the others series would.



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The third Asène Lupin movie: L'aiguille creuse (the hollow needle)
While a few more series animé came out from France during the 70's, these would be the main representatives of the 70's wave either through their popular success, their innovative themes or their impact on the genre. But while the French animé scene was flourishing, across the channel the British animé microcosm would begin to develop its own independent vision and style during the same period.
 
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European animé
part. 2

I like how much detail you added about anime in TL-191 being invented in France.

pattontank12 and I mentioned about the possibility of TL-191 anime coming from Brazil. Perhaps it’s called Anima, for short.

However, this is also okay. :)
 
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I like how much detail you added about anime in TL-191 being invented in France.

pattontank112 and I mentioned about the possibility of TL-191 anime coming from Brazil, perhaps being called Anima.

However, this is also okay. :)
I mostly developed this idea since, like Japan OTL, TL-191 France came out of the war devastated, occupied and nuked. They got a new perspectives and medium since the past expectation in art and cinema were shattered.

As for Brazil, you could still tag it along, as French Animé also spreaded to Britain, making it less insular the OTL anime.
 
European Animé
part 3.
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part 1/part 2)

The United Kingdoms experience post war was very different from the French, having three, not one city destroyed by sunbombs but never suffering through occupation at the same extent as France had. While Germans officials dismantled the British nuclear program and prosecuted Mosley and those in charge of the nuking of Hamburg, per the peace treaty clause, they never stayed and occupied the country, as the new government took reign of the country and repudiated its past actions. In the midst of the dismantling of their empire, unable to maintain it due to the post-war disastrous economy, having notably to burden the reconstruction of Hamburg cost, many considered the 50's ad 60's the period when the sun finally set on the British Empire.
But Britons are nothing but enduring peoples, the destruction of the war, the collapse of their old industry and the end of the Empire was not the end of Britain but it instead laid the ground to a new wave of innovation and industrial renewal. The reconstruction era lasted longer then the French, was much grimmer but eventually the rubble were cleared and new foundations could be layered. Compared to the French having to deal with the Germans, the British did pride themselves of having, alone, pulled up their sleeves and restored their country. But also, they restored much more of their past monuments that where destroyed in the original forms such as the London bridge, Big-Ben, Whitehall, the Tower of London etc. While much more proud and nostalgic of their past then the French, the British still had to rebuild much more then monuments, entire housing and buildings had to be erected to replace the ruins, and on the cheap. Strapped for cash, the British government could not afford to be as fancy as the French but were still influenced by the Modernist current in vogue, creating what many still deride as ''Modernism on a budget'': Brutalism. Using cheap concrete, steel and glass, this new wave embraced the naked concrete, the geometrical forms and a certain utilitarianism.

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Even the distant York, home of the Bachelor Studio, saw the Brutalist style slowly creeping in its suburb, as the sign of the arrival of a new era. Their last animated movie would be ''Thunder Sub'' in 1970, the story of a submarine-carrier, that is high tech and impervious to regular ships and set to protect what is left of the British Empire from the depredation of a unknown alien force from outer-space. While the other world powers struggles to fight the aliens, the ''Ark Royal'' and its crew would repulse the enemies and save the day.

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The Dvd cover/the actual animation


It would be their last movie as Bachelor Studio would immediately start to switch to TV as soon as 1972, by offering to the BBC the ''Super Grand Prix'' racing animated series. Clearly inspired by Speed Racer, their other successful franchise, they presented a more traditional story about a underdog racing team coming from a peaceful town in the country, but the pilot is able thanks to his friends and his skill to compete against world class cars and team. Two of them would be presented as the main ''antagonist'', one in mid-season, the other for the grand finale; an obnoxious American driver, with a loud mouth and cow-boy hat and the last opponent being a cold, haughty German. The courageous and tenacious British pilot would triumph from both of them and win the Super Grand Prix.

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The Dvd cover/The animation


These two popular and commercial successes would be bought and broadcasted in France but unlike it, the Bachelor Studio had difficulty to export its produce outside of its borders (France excluded, Bachelor and Image were very close and often ''exchanged'' animé to distribute it to the other country). Indeed, if France was the main Francophone pole, British had to compete against the American juggernaut and Hollywood. In USA the animé style did not had the same broad appeal as in France or England and was derisively compared to ''cheaper Disney'', in fact it was often the USA that sold concept and broadcast rights to British stations then the other way around. The countries that used to be part of the British sphere were either uninterested or already under the American sphere of ifluence. Outside of the well established Batchelor Studio, it was harder for English animation company to survive then for French ones, this explained the fact that Batchelor would end up having a near monopoly on the animé genre in England at the end of the 70's while IAP had to share the market with other viable studios. For young British talent, it was better to apply to Batchelor then trying to create their own company.
But that doesn't mean that animé were not profitables, the British isles population was quite the audience and hungry for entertainment, especially British one. And this explain one of their biggest success in 1975: ''HMS Dreadnought'' The story of a space power named the ''Commonwealth'' that find itself attacked by a unknown power with colonized world from its fringe disappearing. They would send their newest and most powerfull ship, the titular HMS Dreadought, to investigate on the matter. They would discover that an alien race is coming to invade the human space, alerted the Commonwealth try to warn other nations but they dismiss their fear, so it's alone that the Dreadnought need to hold the invaders until the Commonwealth fleet can arrive, saving the day. It would become the largest success for Bachelor studio, easily surpassing Speed Racer, and being adapted into a movie in 1976 as well as into toys and other derivative products.

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The titular ship, the HMS Dreadnought


Although far less successful financially then the other franchise, one animated series would be drastically different. A Canadian expatriate that found refuge in England following the American invasion of his home country would be non other then Geoffrey Montgomery, the descendant of Lucy Maud Montgomery, the famous Canadian writer of ''Anne of Green Gables''. With the growing popularity of animé in England, he would contact Halas Batchelor in person to convince him to adapt the novel into an animated movie. Uninterested in delving back into cinematic project, Halas wold however propose a tv series. Geoffrey accepted the offer and sold the rights of adaptation to Batchelor Studio. Many rumors speculated as why Geoffrey actively seek to sell the rights of his great-mother novels to Batchelor studio, one of them being that he was short of money but he revealed at the series launch that he wanted to keep the Canadian culture alive, to avoid that the American erase or co opt it. While Anne of the Green Gables was not the most popular production in England, it was however the most exported, a rarity for Batchelor Studio. Right at its debut in 1977 on the BBC, the Republic of Quebec would acquire the broadcasting rights on its territory and dubbed it before even the French, in fact, most of the distribution in France would use the Quebecois dubbing. The Netherlands and Belgium would also acquire the distribution rights as well as the US state of Maritime, the birth place of the original author. This last one was very much a surprise as the Geoffrey demanded that in the credit it would be mentioned that the original author (his grand-mother) was credited as a Canadian from Prince-Edward Island. But their was next to little problem with that, in 1979 (the Maritime release date) the Canadian resistance was a thing of the past and most of the province were now fully integrated as US states.


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Both the Quebecois and British DvD cover/The animation


Apart from Anne of Green Gables, most British animé found themselves quite different from the French ones. Much more inclined to militaristic stories, many speculated that it was due to lingering influence from Mosleite, due to the lack of German occupation and de-radicalisation, like France suffered. But while the lack of German occupation was clearly a factor, much of the accusation of latent Mosleitism were unfounded, the militarist animé were instead an externalization of the conflicting British feeling of impotency and grand past imperial might. In addition, in France the figure of Jean Image was an important influence on all animators as many were either from the Vichy Clique or influenced by them, and Jean pacifism had a clear impact on the French scene. Meanwhile, Halas Batchelor was first and foremost an artist and businessman, not willing to have his own view impacting the final product.
 
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This last one was very much a surprise as the Geoffrey demanded that in the credit it would be mentioned that the original author (his grand-mother) was credited as a Canadian from Prince-Edward Island. But their was next to little problem with that, in 1979 (the Maritime release date) the Canadian resistance was a thing of the past and most of the province were now fully integrated as US states.
Nice seeing how USA is solving the issue of canada, nice detail. The same Quebec as a gateway for a market exports from europe
 
I have thinking about this, but what would Hogan's Heroes and Dad's Army look like in TL-191?

At least a dozen or so people have asked about Hogan's Heroes (including me) and the answer's always been the same. Hogan's Heroes would likely not exist in the TL-191 USA, but it could exist in Germany.
 
When Larry Frenchen created the counterfactual history book series, Northern Victory or Antietam Timeline, he used symbols that would develop into having negative connotations, compared to what they are now. Some of the changes were not well-received by readers from different parts of the world and expressed their discomfort of the cultural appropriation that the author was accused of doing. Frenchen denied that he has actual ill-will towards the symbols and that he was trying to offend people.

He claimed in a statement, "...The point of these symbols in my books is not that they are inherently evil, but that any symbol, no matter their innocent origins, can be hijacked and used by the forces of evil. Today, the saltire, once an acceptable variation of the Christian cross, is now openly and strongly condemned as a symbol of racism, totalitarianism and genocide, at least on this side of the globe."


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Image of Catholic processionists, such as Nazarenos or Fariseos, wearing a capirote during Holy Week in Spain. The pointed hood and robe symbolize penance for their sins and has been used for centuries. Larry Frenchen, author of counterfactuals, chose to replicate the costumes for a fictional domestic terrorist group in his books, the CCC (Circle of Confederate Clans). The group was created after the Confederacy had lost their war of independence during the Confederate Revolution. Throughout the books, the organization targets free blacks, Catholics, Jews, immigrants, and the U.S. government.

Many Spaniards have expressed outrage against the author for choosing something considered harmless and holy from their culture and transforming it into something evil.



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U.S. pilot wearing a swastika badge sometime in the 1930's. (In TL-191), the swastika is a symbol of luck and it originated as a religious symbol in Eurasia. In Larry Frenchen's books, it is a symbol of Freedomite Germany used by Adolphus Schickelgruber, a German dictator who attempted to reduce the population of Jews in Europe.


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Officer of the 45th Infrantry Division wearing a swastika. The group originated from Sequoyah and fought against the Confederates during Operation Blackbeard.
Larry Frenchen claimed that he received an angry letter from an elderly veteran of the division who didn't like the fact that he turned the swastika into a symbol of hate.



Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capirote
https://www.quora.com/Has-the-swastika-ever-been-used-by-the-US-on-their-military-uniforms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/45th_Infantry_Division_(United_States)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/55th_Fighter_Squadron
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_use_of_the_swastika_in_the_early_20th_century
Hitler's sketches for designing a symbol for his ideology
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/history-of-the-swastika
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/alternate-symbol-for-nazi-german.161723/
 
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