Pompey has no living sons when he marries Julia

Let's say gnanus and sextus died as infants and by the time he married Julia he had no living sons. Nothing else in pompeys life is different however until he marries Julia. Because he has no male heir he is more careful with her when she is pregnant resulting in her giving him a healthy son. They then have only from that point forward daughters. The trouble arise when grandpa ceasar wants the boy to also be his heir. Pompey says no wanting his only son to be his heir. So how does this go down? Does ceasar relent and adopts some relative like Octavian? Or does this causes a riff between the men causing civil war to still happen?
 
Why on earth would someone wage war to someone else because the latter refuses to give his only son into adoption ?

Here was the practice between roman aristocrats who allied through marriage with one's daughter who had no son. They agreed that if the son in law had several sons, he would give one in adoption to his father in law. If he had but one son, he usually would not give his only son.

Now there were tricks that the romans could do and that was will adoption. Servilia organized the posthumus adoption of her son Marcus Junius Brutus by her dead brother Quintus Servilius Caepio so that the patrician Servili did not become extinct.

Publius Cornelius Scipio Nasica was adopted when a grown adult in his thirties by his parent Metellus Pius who had no son. And although he legally became Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Scipio, everybody called him Scipio and acted as if he had always remained a Cornelius Scipio.

See Munzer who remains the absolute reference on the question.

So you can imagine both solutions.

Either, given the unequalled prestige of Pompey the great, he would not give away his only son and Caesar would adopt his closest kin, probably his cousin Sextus Julius Caesar (grandson of the consul of 91).

Or Pompey and Caesar and Julia who loved both her husband and father agree on a Metellus Scipio like or Brutus like solution so that this only son by Pompey and Julia becomes patrician and be the unchallengeable juggernaut of his generation on the roman political stage.
 
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Why on earth would someone wage war to someone else because the latter refuses to give his only son into adoption ?

Here was the practice between roman aristocrats who allied through marriage with one's daughter who had no son. They agreed that if the son in law had several sons, he would give one in adoption to his father in law. If he had but one son, he usually would not give his only son.

Now there were tricks that the romans could do and that was will adoption. Servilia organized the posthumus adoption of her son Marcus Junius Brutus by her dead brother Quintus Servilius Caepio so that the patrician Servili did not become extinct.

Publius Cornelius Scipio Nasica was adopted when a grown adult in his thirties by his parent Metellus Pius who had no son. And although he legally became Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Scipio, everybody called him Scipio and acted as if he had always remained a Cornelius Scipio.

See Munzer who remains the absolute reference on the question.

So you can imagine both solutions.

Either, given the unequalled prestige of Pompey the great, he would not give away his only son and Caesar would adopt his closest kin, probably his cousin Sextus Julius Caesar (grandson of the consul of 91).

Or Pompey and Caesar and Julia who loved both her husband and father agree on a Metellus Scipio like or Brutus like solution so that this only son by Pompey and Julia becomes patrician and be the unchallengeable juggernaut of his generation on the roman political stage.
So all that will happen is Julius ceasar grandson would be patrician? Ok. So what would happen if this son is greater then his father and grandfather combined? Also what would most likley happen if pompeys and Caesars alience stayed intact?
 
Caesar will never adopt Pompey the great and Pompey will never accept being adopted by any one. But OTL Caesat did make Pompey his legal heir OTL for 11 years.

After he gave his daughter Julia into marriage with Pompey in 59, he changed his will so that Pompey would be his heir if he Caesar had no son. In late 49 or early 48, during the civil war, Caesar made this will public and then, of course, changed it.

If Pompey and Caesar remain allies, there is no civil war as long as this alliance lasts and they remain alive. But political opponents will try to defeat this dominating faction, through elections, trial of political allies of Pompey and Caesar.

And I don't think you can have a man that is greater than Caesar. There never was before and never was again, in Rome, a man who combined such a mix of political, military, intellectual talents, and ability to ride and change the course of events.

Now events will be the determining factor. Without opportunity, the most talented will not perform extraordinary works.

But this Gaius Julius Caesar Pompeianus could be the conqueror of Egypt, the Danube frontier, Mesopotamia, and build a kind of Principate.
 
Caesar will never adopt Pompey the great and Pompey will never accept being adopted by any one. But OTL Caesat did make Pompey his legal heir OTL for 11 years.

After he gave his daughter Julia into marriage with Pompey in 59, he changed his will so that Pompey would be his heir if he Caesar had no son. In late 49 or early 48, during the civil war, Caesar made this will public and then, of course, changed it.

If Pompey and Caesar remain allies, there is no civil war as long as this alliance lasts and they remain alive. But political opponents will try to defeat this dominating faction, through elections, trial of political allies of Pompey and Caesar.

And I don't think you can have a man that is greater than Caesar. There never was before and never was again, in Rome, a man who combined such a mix of political, military, intellectual talents, and ability to ride and change the course of events.

Now events will be the determining factor. Without opportunity, the most talented will not perform extraordinary works.

But this Gaius Julius Caesar Pompeianus could be the conqueror of Egypt, the Danube frontier, Mesopotamia, and build a kind of Principate.
Sounds cool
 
As far as we can assess (which is not far at all), it seems to me that Caesar was great at breeding children. Or more probably that Caesar's mother Aurelia was really really really great at it because all sources that Julia (Caesar's only daughter) was remarkably raised and that she was very instructed, very clever, and charming (to the point that Pompey refused to divorce her at times when some of his former allies urged him to divorce in order to reconcile with optimates and promote his own interests against Caesar's massive rise in power and prestige).

So there are quite food reasons to think that a son by Julia, given into adoption to his maternal grandfather Caesar, would have been very well bred. Which was not the case of Pompey's OTL 2 sons which his wife Mucia gave to him. Gnaeus Pompey the younger was a barely talented prick. And Sextus Pompey, although apparently not such a prick and quite talented in military matters, seemed to have suffered some problems given that he married a wife from some kind of third rank family.
 
As far as we can assess (which is not far at all), it seems to me that Caesar was great at breeding children. Or more probably that Caesar's mother Aurelia was really really really great at it because all sources that Julia (Caesar's only daughter) was remarkably raised and that she was very instructed, very clever, and charming (to the point that Pompey refused to divorce her at times when some of his former allies urged him to divorce in order to reconcile with optimates and promote his own interests against Caesar's massive rise in power and prestige).

So there are quite food reasons to think that a son by Julia, given into adoption to his maternal grandfather Caesar, would have been very well bred. Which was not the case of Pompey's OTL 2 sons which his wife Mucia gave to him. Gnaeus Pompey the younger was a barely talented prick. And Sextus Pompey, although apparently not such a prick and quite talented in military matters, seemed to have suffered some problems given that he married a wife from some kind of third rank family.
Yes but like I said Pompey doesn't want to give up his son so it's probley going to be will adoption.
 
Then just have Pompey die of natural death before Caesar.

Then Caesar adopts adult his grandson the Metellus Scipio way.
 
Then just have Pompey die of natural death before Caesar.

Then Caesar adopts adult his grandson the Metellus Scipio way.
Hm sounds cool. So would this kid inherit the wealth of both his father and grandfather? If so how rich would he be?
 

Raunchel

Banned
Hm sounds cool. So would this kid inherit the wealth of both his father and grandfather? If so how rich would he be?

Excessively rich, but he would need quite some skills to survive, he would also be the number one target, and no one could possibly forget about him. So he'd better be able to live up to the reputation of two such great men.
 
Excessively rich, but he would need quite some skills to survive, he would also be the number one target, and no one could possibly forget about him. So he'd better be able to live up to the reputation of two such great men.
Okay how about three scenario for this kids skill

Average but ambitions

Greater then his father and grandfather combined but unambitions

Greater then his father and grandfather combined with the ambition to match

How do these scenarios go?
 
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