Polygynous Greece and Rome

Fenestella

Banned
If the Greco-Roman culture were polygynous, what's the likelihood of monogamy being espoused by the majority of humanity as it is?
 
Relatively few odds.

First, I should point that early Greek civilisation probably knew polygamy (at "Dark Age" and possibly Mycenean) with permanance in Western and Northern Classical Greece.

Reasons why it went this way are a bit vague, but it's parallel with the development of Classical or Pre-Classical Greek societies, along with the shunning of bastardisation. Giving the limitation of polygamy to elites or sub-elites groups, it may have been tied to the general political changes in the period including the political competitions between nobles/elite lines, as elite polygamy can hint at ressource monopolisation, which may have created tensions especially in a context where civic egalitarianism was develloping.

Anyway, slavery prooved being an efficient derivative, in matter of workforce (domestic rather than familial) and, unfortunatly, sexually as well.

Rome situation is a bit different, and more vague, but it can simply come down to hellenic influence and/or similar political organisation.

Admitting, however, that Latins devellops a tolerance or acceptation to polygamy, I don't see it being hugely precent : neighbouring societies practiced them as well, but in a limited (sometimes symbolic) manner.

The biggest change, however, would be no early socially imposed monogamy in the Greco-Roman traditions and its offsprings (Christianity's use on there is importantly due to hellenic/roman legacy, if not only).

While egalitarian ideologies (as in Classical Greece's isonomy, or Christianity) tends to shun down polygamy and that the former are likely to get develloped sooner or later, it's not written down that it couldn't survive as a rare practice without completly dying down.

The best bet would be to limit the huge changes of Early Iron Age (or, much harder but safer, to limit Late Bronze Age's changes). Granted the world would be pretty much unreckognizable, but in order to achieve your OP, there's few other ways.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Personally I think the easiest way to enable Polygynous behaviour, is to make flat out Polygamy fine for both men and women.

Both man and women have multiple (non-always-overlapping) partners.

That way it isn't a monopolisation of resources, but instead sharing.

And since, well, who the hell knows who the father is, the entire community raises the children.
 
Personally I think the easiest way to enable Polygynous behaviour, is to make flat out Polygamy fine for both men and women.

Both man and women have multiple (non-always-overlapping) partners.

That way it isn't a monopolisation of resources, but instead sharing.

And since, well, who the hell knows who the father is, the entire community raises the children.

Isn't that supposedly what the Etruscans practiced?
 
Personally I think the easiest way to enable Polygynous behaviour, is to make flat out Polygamy fine for both men and women.
Which is never, ever, going to happen in cultures as deeply mysoginistic than classical Greek culture or early Roman culture.

That way it isn't a monopolisation of resources, but instead sharing.
Again, giving that women weren't included in the slightest in the civic egalitarianism of the greek polis, and that ethnoi-leaded states largely remained driven by masculine royalty...

Isn't that supposedly what the Etruscans practiced?
Most certainly not. This is essentially a fantasy (which included as well incest and likewise stuff) from late authors which is noit corrobored so far.
Not only that, but it wouldn't be surprising that the absence of polygamy in Rome since the beggining may have been an Etruscean-inherited feature.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Which is never, ever, going to happen in cultures as deeply mysoginistic than classical Greek culture or early Roman culture.

I suppose so, unless they had something drastically transform the culture - in which case, would it really be Classical Greek or Early Roman?

Again, giving that women weren't included in the slightest in the civic egalitarianism of the greek polis, and that ethnoi-leaded states largely remained driven by masculine royalty...

What on earth does Ethnoi-leaded mean? This thread is the first hit for it.

The easiest way I can see for this to happen is a major cultural shift in a Greek Polis after it is conquered by some Sarmatians - and a cultural shift that essentially treats Priapus and Aphrodite, or their equivalents as equals - I'm guessing some sort of talented line of queens might be enough to start it. Greco-Sarmatian Queen of Taurica :p
 
I suppose so, unless they had something drastically transform the culture - in which case, would it really be Classical Greek or Early Roman?
Basically this : it's not impossible to maintain polygamy (or even some form of polyandry*) in Classical Greece, while not that intuitive, completeling remodely the gender roles in institutions, politics and family...

Generalized polyandry specifically may require a PoD in Protohistory at best, in order to have Proto-Greeks encountering a strong polyandric tradition in Balkans that the deep refusal of PIE on this regard couldn't get rid of?
I won't even mention a Chalcolithic PoD, giving the former is already outside the scope of the OP.

*Essentially in Sparta, which is kind of an exceptionnal exemple. Admittedly the women were freer in this polis, but it's partially due to the political development of the city, with the establishment of a militarized male population. IMO, we're rather in a "socialization of reproduction", rather than an actual polyandry.

The case is exceptionnal enough, that I doubt it would be viable on more than a large scale : admittedly, it wasn't even there, as Sparta may not have known it during the Archaic period


What on earth does Ethnoi-leaded mean? This thread is the first hit for it.
I may have poorly worded it, but you had two kind of states in Classical Greece.
- The city-state, defined by a polis, as Athenes, Thebes, Sparta,...
- And the ethnic state, defined by an ethnos, as Macedonia, Epirus,...

In the second, that kept more of the pre-classical features, polygamy was still existing.

The easiest way I can see for this to happen is a major cultural shift in a Greek Polis after it is conquered by some Sarmatians - and a cultural shift that essentially treats Priapus and Aphrodite, or their equivalents as equals - I'm guessing some sort of talented line of queens might be enough to start it. Greco-Sarmatian Queen of Taurica :p
I think you meant Scythians?
I don't think that would be possible : the only point of contact Scythians and Greeks had was on Black Sea coast, especially in the Northern-Eastern part, and it didn't went exactly this way.

Maybe an Cimmerian invasion, either as IOTL except they have a lasting presence along the Ionian coast, or with Scythians pushing them in Balkans instead of Anatolia (assuming the theory of northern Black Sea origin is true)?

But even there, the bulk of pre-Classical Greek culture would be still there, and giving how they settled up in Anatolia IOTL, I think Cimmerians would still have went largely native, without real cultural features to go matriarcal or matriarist.

See, contrary to the reputation gave by Greeks that were really, really shocked to see women fighting along men (We're talking of a culture where a woman speaking freely with men may be considered as a prostitute, so we're talking low standards there), Scythians weren't matriarcal or about equal gender treatment for what we know about it.
We're talking of something closer to Celts, where women could have an important role, including matrilinearity, but without this being equal.

As for Aphrodite, giving its unically Greek nature (which is, actually, a probable Near-Eastern or Eteo-Cretan origin, as it's absent from PIE divine figures)
 
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