Eh, why the Tang? I mean, they claimed to be the successors of the Confucian world and the Ming (but it's not like Joseon Korea was ever in a position to conquer anyone once Injo took the throne) after the latter fell to the Manchu but the Tang? There's about a 500 year gap between the Tang and Joseon and I'm not quite sure as to the links between them.The Joseon Korea can claim to be the successors of Tang.
The Joseon rulers are related to the Tang Dynasty(Lee), in the same way as the first Jin Dynasty is related to Qing.Eh, why the Tang? I mean, they claimed to be the successors of the Confucian world and the Ming (but it's not like Joseon Korea was ever in a position to conquer anyone once Injo took the throne) after the latter fell to the Manchu but the Tang? There's about a 500 year gap between the Tang and Joseon and I'm not quite sure as to the links between them.
The Joseon rulers are related to the Tang Dynasty(Lee), in the same way as the first Jin Dynasty is related to Qing.
That would be silly lol,unless they were to go as far as to actually forge their ancestry,just like the rulers of Southern Tang did.The Joseon Korea can claim to be the successors of Tang.
Well, I'll be damned. So it appears...The Jeonju Yi clan (Yi Seong-gye being of this particular clan) claims descent from the Tang dynasty? Putting military capabilities aside because the Joseon were never a serious threat to any Chinese dynasty, I guess that could work to some extent?The Joseon rulers are related to the Tang Dynasty(Lee), in the same way as the first Jin Dynasty is related to Qing.
I mean...apparently they were related, according at some records, though I have no clue as to their veracity. Just did a cursory search but it seems that it's a thing and not just a random guess based on sharing the surname.That would be silly lol,unless they were to go as far as to actually forge their ancestry,just like the rulers of Southern Tang did.
Generally,people liked to make fancy claims about their ancestry.The actual rulers of Tang for example,claimed that they descended from the aristocratic Li Clan of Longxi while in actuality,most people at the time knew what their ancestors really were—lowly peasants,likely even Xianbei barbarians.Well, I'll be damned. So it appears...The Jeonju Yi clan (Yi Seong-gye being of this particular clan) claims descent from the Tang dynasty? Putting military capabilities aside because the Joseon were never a serious threat to any Chinese dynasty, I guess that could work to some extent?
I mean...apparently they were related, according at some records, though I have no clue as to their veracity. Just did a cursory search but it seems that it's a thing and not just a random guess based on sharing the surname.
Well, damn. That...that gives me a couple of ideas. Thank you @kasumigenx. TIL
Yeah, does make finding real genealogies pretty damn hard. And, honestly, I doubt the truth of it. But what really got me was that the Jeonju Yi's actually made that sort of claim (as outlandish as I find it) and, well, it does open up some opportunities for a timeline, I think.Generally,people liked to make fancy claims about their ancestry.The actual rulers of Tang for example,claimed that they descended from the aristocratic Li Clan of Longxi while in actuality,most people at the time knew what their ancestors really were—lowly peasants,likely even Xianbei barbarians.
Generally speaking,claims are only treated as valid if the history books or headstones of mauseleums mention something about a continuous lineage, like mentioning what ancestor A did,that ancestor B is the son of ancestor A and then what he did etc.Nobody treated the Tang descent from the Longxi Lis as serious because the closest authentic Longxi Li member they claimed to have descended from was centuries away from the Tang Dynasty,and that they could not provide further verified family members between that Longxi Li member and Li Hu(the grandfather of the first Tang emperor).Yeah, does make finding real genealogies pretty damn hard. And, honestly, I doubt the truth of it. But what really got me was that the Jeonju Yi's actually made that sort of claim (as outlandish as I find it) and, well, it does open up some opportunities for a timeline, I think.
Anyways, back to the actual thread, erm… Joseon would be interesting, yeah, with that new snippet in mind, the Scythians are the most likely, and the Japanese (Imperial, not Toyotomi) were the closest to conquering China (though that's post-1900). I do doubt Toyotomi Japan's capabilities to make the conquest, even with greater consolidation, seeing as Hideyoshi's common birth didn't afford him much legitimacy, the samurai needed some way to vent (and attacking Korea was only ever going to sink his support due to the quagmire it would be in almost any case, the 1592 invasion was hilariously in Hideyoshi's favour and even then a minor Ming intervention of 40k men sent his forces from Pyongyang back to Hanseong), and attacking Formosa, Manila, or Joseon Korea brings Japan into conflict with the Dutch, Iberians, or Chinese, all of whom have stronger navies than Japan. SE Asians are unlikely without an early POD and Indians would be absolutely hilarious.
Can't say I agree with that assessment. No nation based in the peninsula was ever really poised for a conquest of China (the Goguryeo victory over the Sui in a defensive war was the most any Korean dynasty got. Maybe if they'd united the peninsula...but that's still a long shot, since it was partially terrain that gave them that victory), especially after the Imjin War, Yi Gwal's revolt, and the Manchu invasions completely destabilized the Joseon over the course of 40 years. Injo and Hyojong were both a bit deluded when it came to the Manchu (hence Manchu invasions 1 and 2 during Injo's reign) and Hyojong's Northern Expedition was doomed the second Han soldiers starting defecting en masse, which is to say before he became king. Attacking the Qing during the Revolt of the 3 Feudatories, well, I don't know enough about that particular timeframe to make any judgments except it's still not likely, fighting the Qing and then the warlords fighting for dominance in the south.Korea.
On the backdoor and possible in quite a few dynasties. As recent as the Injo of Joseon and Hyojong of Joseon (3 July 1619 – 23 June 1659) , who laid down plans to invade Manchuria and the Qing before his demise.
What about Tibetans ?Well, the question is mostly who do you think would be able to rule China, but also which do you think is the most interessant to develop. (Feel free to suggest other people that I wouldn't have mentionned)