POLL: Most 'evil' states in history

What is to you the most evil state that existed before 1900?

  • Austria(-Hungary)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bulgaria

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • Byzantine Empire

    Votes: 4 1.0%
  • Crusader States

    Votes: 15 3.8%
  • Frankish Empire

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • France (post Frankish Empire)

    Votes: 4 1.0%
  • Germany

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • Holy Roman Empire

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Macedonian Empire

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Ottoman Empire

    Votes: 37 9.3%
  • Portugal

    Votes: 3 0.8%
  • Roman Empire

    Votes: 5 1.3%
  • Russia

    Votes: 7 1.8%
  • Safavid persia

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Spain

    Votes: 50 12.6%
  • United Kingdom

    Votes: 44 11.1%
  • United States

    Votes: 17 4.3%
  • Others

    Votes: 50 12.6%
  • Netherlands

    Votes: 2 0.5%
  • Mongolian Empire

    Votes: 150 37.8%

  • Total voters
    397
My other was for the Dehli Sultanate, because well...

Sikander the Iconoclast was an atrocious Kashmiri ruler, not a Delhi Sultan. The Madurai Sultanate was in, well Madurai, which is extremely far from Delhi. What the fuck is with that summary?

No, the Timurid Empire was much worse than the Delhi Sultanate ever was.
 
The Roman Empire (in the Republic and Early Empire period) has to have a special mention. You look at Trajan's column and they celebrated what would be considered war crimes today.

One of their historians coined the term "making a desert and calling it peace", which was true of what they did to Carthage. Not to mention they invented a word for killing every tenth man among other things.

One could argue that Assyria and ancient Near East states did this prior to Rome, possibly influenced by these standards.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
I forgot about those bastards. If the sole purpose of your state is war, then I’d say that’s a shoe-in for most evil.



Truly the only proper judge of one’s morality.
Why did you change the username of the member who brought up the Assyrian Empire?

That is unacceptable. DO NOT repeat.
 

Teejay

Gone Fishin'
One could argue that Assyria and ancient Near East states did this prior to Rome, possibly influenced by these standards.

I agree that Assyrians and the Babylonians were more brutal than the Romans which to say something. Anyway Ancient Empires were generally were extremely brutal by our modern standards, however some of them really take the cake. For example; The Romans, Assyrians and Aztecs among others.

I am not sure how familiar your educated Greek or Roman (unless they were living in Syria and Mesopotamia) were with the Neo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian empires.
 
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The Indonesians can probably make a case for it.

I lived in Indonesia for a few years and yes, I can make a case.

Let me start by saying that most Indonesian when they are learning history wished they were under the British rule. Why? Because British empire track record in Indonesia is pretty good. The Brits minimise the slave trade, made some good historical catalogues of historic monuments like the Borobudur, they even attempted to remove the forced labor that the Dutch employed. On the other hand the only good thing the Dutch ever do is the Anyer-Panarukan road. Which was built over the dead bodies of over ten thousand Indonesian. And add that to the few famine they caused, the massacres, the genocide of small tribes. Well pre 20th century Dutch East Indies was essentially a non industrial version of Belgium free state.

Honestly I don't get why you people votes for the Brits. The Brits has the most death toll because they are the most successful colonizer. One thing that I need to note is this : Name me a single successful independent colony that is not a former British colony. I honestly can't name one.

In my opinion in terms of "evil" of the colonial empires its Belgium>Netherland>Spain>Britain

I dont know enough about French and Portuguese empire to rank them

Also why is the Macedonian there? Are we talking about Basil's Macedonia or Alexander's macedonia?
 
In the span of human history, extensive violence on minority groups doesn't make you evil it's the norm. To identify the "most evil" I think you have to look at other criteria.

I would argue for the ancient Assyrians or Hittites (or really most of the older ancient near-east kingdoms) because of their methods of execution. All nations have episodes of violence, murder, and cruelty in pursuit of wealth and expansion but the ancient near east kingdoms seem to have taken a huge amount of perverse joy in torture. Even the Romans preferred a quick strangulation but locking a man in a box so only his head protrudes and then painting him with honey to attract insects? Flaying people alive? Mass executions of the children of your enemies and making them watch? Stuff like that wasn't unusual for people who offended the ruling class in the ancient near east.
 
Honestly I don't get why you people votes for the Brits. The Brits has the most death toll because they are the most successful colonizer. One thing that I need to note is this : Name me a single successful independent colony that is not a former British colony. I honestly can't name one.

Exactly. As the most successful at building colonies across the Earth, they have committed endless atrocities. Their success is built on the blood and poverty of countless millions, far more than Spain or the Dutchmen.
 

Deleted member 97083

I am not sure how familiar your educated Greek or Roman (unless they were living in Syria and Mesopotamia) were with the Neo-Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian empires.
They were familiar with Assyria and Babylon.

Herodotus wrote "Five hundred and twenty years the Assyrians ruled Upper Asia. The first to revolt from them were the Medes." He also stated "Assyria possesses a vast number of great cities, whereof the most renowned and strongest at this time was Babylon, where, after the fall of Nineveh, the seat of government had been removed."

Appian of Alexandria, reflected on the "rise and fall of cities, nations, and empires, about the fate of Troy, that once proud city, upon that of the Assyrians, the Medes, and the Persians, greatest of all, and later the splendid Macedonian empire."

The Bible of course mentions Assyria and Babylon so when the Greeks and Romans Christianized then educated Romans certainly would have been aware of those empires from that point on.

In the span of human history, extensive violence on minority groups doesn't make you evil it's the norm. To identify the "most evil" I think you have to look at other criteria.

I would argue for the ancient Assyrians or Hittites (or really most of the older ancient near-east kingdoms) because of their methods of execution. All nations have episodes of violence, murder, and cruelty in pursuit of wealth and expansion but the ancient near east kingdoms seem to have taken a huge amount of perverse joy in torture. Even the Romans preferred a quick strangulation but locking a man in a box so only his head protrudes and then painting him with honey to attract insects? Flaying people alive? Mass executions of the children of your enemies and making them watch? Stuff like that wasn't unusual for people who offended the ruling class in the ancient near east.

Yeah, Assyrian kings were particularly brutal.

"I built a pillar over against the city gate and I flayed all the chiefs who had revolted and I covered the pillar with their skins. Some I impaled upon the pillar on stakes and others I bound to stakes round the pillar. I cut the limbs off the officers who had rebelled. Many captives I burned with fire and many I took as living captives. From some I cut off their noses, their ears, and their fingers, of many I put out their eyes. I made one pillar of the living and another of heads and I bound their heads to tree trunks round about the city. Their young men and maidens I consumed with fire. The rest of their warriors I consumed with thirst in the desert of the Euphrates."
- Ashurnasirpal II
 
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I’m curious which nations were picked by the people who voted “Other.”

I’m also curious as to why France and the Netherlands lag so much behind Britain and Spain—they were colonizers on a smaller scale, true, but still did a lot of the same stuff as the bigger players.
I did the Belgium Free State: even the other colonialists thought they went too far. When Britain, France, Germany, et al. are going ‘Slow down with the genocide there!’ you know you dun goofed.

Also, the 7 Kill Stele warlord in China is pretty up there. And uh, as a bit of a Bulgaraboo, what did they do? Aside from being in the Axis and the awful treatment of Turks in the late 20th century, what evil did they do? Both of those were in the twentieth century. Their invasion of Byzantium AFAIK wasn’t much worse than other Germanic and Slavic tribes.
 

Teejay

Gone Fishin'
I’ve heard Tunisia is doing fairly well.

Tunisia along with Morocco were French protectorates rather than a colony. In that French rule was more indirect rather than direct than it was in Algeria.

The situation was pretty much similar to the various princely states in the British Raj.
 
What is in your eyes the most evil state in the history before 1900?

You have omitted numerous deserving candidates, such as Timur's Empire, Vlad Tepes, the Heavenly Kingdom of Tai Ping, and the Congo Free State.

And my personal favorite: the Aztec State, which practiced human sacrifice on a colossal scale. Aztec murders approached the scale of Nazi Germany - and they achieved this with stone knives. Their rituals included the torture-death of children, whose tears forecast the extent of the next season's rainfall.
 
Tunisia along with Morocco were French protectorates rather than a colony. In that French rule was more indirect rather than direct than it was in Algeria.

The situation was pretty much similar to the various princely states in the British Raj.
Vietnam is doing well, Senegal too. I'd need to look up the others
 
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