POLL: Did WWI directly lead to WWII

Did WWI directly lead to WWII?


  • Total voters
    84
The question is whether or not a POD after the end of WWI(and the Versailles Peace Treaty) can stop a general world war, ether similar to OTL or not, resulting in another brutal bloodshed across Europe or elsewhere.
 
Did WWI directly lead to WWII
The question is whether or not a POD after the end of WWI(and the Versailles Peace Treaty) can stop a general world war, ether similar to OTL or not, resulting in another brutal bloodshed across Europe or elsewhere.
Wait, so just to be clear, an affirmative in the first question is a negative in the second, correct?

So if you say that "A PoD in the 1920's or 30's could have stopped WWII", you are, by definition, saying "WWI did not lead directly to WWII", right?
 

tenthring

Banned
PODs certainly exist to stop WWII, but that doesn't mean WWI didn't cause WWII....?

I can't imagine a group remotely like the Nazi's taking power in a world without WWI. So in the sense that revolutionary fascist governments bent on total war take over...I don't see that without WWI. By contrast, if WWI didn't happen, one can imagine the imperial powers going to war over some other reason at some later date, but that would be of a different character then WWI.
 

LordKalvert

Banned
Well, WWII isn't inevitable after WWI- its just highly, extremely, almost certain but yes there are ways to avoid it likely

The essential problem of Versailles is that the coalition that imposes it on Germany breaks down and the remaining powers in the anti-German front are too weak to stand up to Germany

The Russians are defeated and replaced by the Poles- for Germany this is a big win, one that they earned on the battlefield. Poland is not going to be drawing off the German army like Russia did- especially because the Russians don't like Versailles anymore than they like Poles

The Americans go home-

The Italians no longer have to worry about Austria but they feel pretty cheated by the treaty themselves. They are in the same spot they were when WWI broke out- happy to jump on the side they think will win

That leaves France and a somewhat interested Britain- though Britain doesn't want Germany destroyed as the Germans keep the French occupied.

But the Anglo-French versus Germans scenario had been played out before in 1914. It would have been a quick, decisive German victory if those 15 divisions the Russians had pinned down in East Prussia could join in the fun

Given this, and everyone knew it at the time, the Germans aren't likely to take any losses from WWI- they are the big kid on the block and expect to be treated like it.

War is almost inevitable
 
Wait, so just to be clear, an affirmative in the first question is a negative in the second, correct?

So if you say that "A PoD in the 1920's or 30's could have stopped WWII", you are, by definition, saying "WWI did not lead directly to WWII", right?

That was slightly confusing but I think yes is the answer.
 

Perkeo

Banned
The original TOV doesn't deserve to be called "peace treaty", but it was dead like a doornail in 1939: Reparations ended below the original German (!) offer, re-armament to world war capability was tolerated, so were the Anschluss and the Sudetenland. Danzig and the Memelland were only a matter of time and the Polish corridor is a lot less humiliating as soon as the Germans begin to remember that is a great invention called the ship.

The Germans failed to realize how successful the Weimar government dismembered the TOV, that no Hitler was needed for this. That's their historical guilt.
 
WW2 can be butterflied away with a POD as late as August 31st, 1939. And no, it was not in any way nigh-inevitable.
 
The Germans failed to realize how successful the Weimar government dismembered the TOV, that no Hitler was needed for this. That's their historical guilt.


The Germans did not elect Hitler for his foreign policy. They elected him for the same reason that Americans elected FDR - in the hope that he could do something about the depression. He just turned out not to be exactly an FDR.

In 1933, foreign affairs were the last thing on any voter's mind - in Germany or anywhere else.
 
The Germans did not elect Hitler for his foreign policy. They elected him for the same reason that Americans elected FDR - in the hope that he could do something about the depression. He just turned out not to be exactly an FDR.

In 1933, foreign affairs were the last thing on any voter's mind - in Germany or anywhere else.

Getting people to realize that Hitler actually campaigned on keeping Germany out of another World War and turning around the economy in 1932-33 is a lost cause.

If one imagines Hitler of 33 as just a screaming lunatic promising war and genocide then you missed the real danger he presents and the real lesson of history of a leader coming to power on one platform, getting absolute power and then doing whatever the hell he really wants to do.
 
WW2 after WW1 was pretty plausible but not inevitable. Reasons are partially from WW1 but there was too other reasons for WW2.
 
So what is your POD on 31/8/1939 that will stop the Second World War? Just out of curiosity

Hitler somehow dies under suspicious circumstances; Goering takes over but his too busy shoring up his position to launch the invasion just yet
 
Like you said just yet, so WWII will still happen just delayed?

Maybe, maybe not. If in the ensuing power-struggle, whether it's in the open or behind the scenes, Goring (or whoever winds up on top, but most likely Goring), comes to the conclusion that starting a war is too damn risky, whilst enoying hunting, drugs and fine art is a lot more fun, the European conflict might be butterflied away entirely.
 
Maybe, maybe not. If in the ensuing power-struggle, whether it's in the open or behind the scenes, Goring (or whoever winds up on top, but most likely Goring), comes to the conclusion that starting a war is too damn risky, whilst enoying hunting, drugs and fine art is a lot more fun, the European conflict might be butterflied away entirely.

But the Molotov Ribbentrop pact had already been signed, Germany was already prepared for war with Poland, surely Stalin would take it as a personal slight that their plan was ignored and wouldn't he kick off about this?
 
The Germans did not elect Hitler for his foreign policy. They elected him for the same reason that Americans elected FDR - in the hope that he could do something about the depression. He just turned out not to be exactly an FDR.

In 1933, foreign affairs were the last thing on any voter's mind - in Germany or anywhere else.
Thing is,they didn't even elect him.Hitler came to power by backroom politics.
 

Perkeo

Banned
Thing is,they didn't even elect him.Hitler came to power by backroom politics.

But to do those backroom politics he needed enough votes to get into striking distance. And those he did get in an election.

So the German electorate neither deserves all the blame for Hitler coming to power, nor does it deserve to be freed from all blame.
 
I answered the poll question which was did WWI direcelty lead to WWII. And that is most definitely a no. Because though WWI played a large part in what caused WWII it did not directly lead to it. I mean I could argue WWI didn't even directly lead to the French-Syrian War or Grceo-Turkish Aar.
 
Top