Polk's Borders - A Stronger Mexico?

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James K Polk wanted the United States to annex Baja California, Sonora, Chihuahua, Tamaulipas, Coahuila, and Nuevo Leone from Mexico.

Historically, most rebellions against the Central Government came from the north. France also invaded the country for the purpose of acquiring northern wealth. Mexico's population also didn't really move north until the late 19th century with the development of railways into the region and further development.

Had the United States taken the north of Mexico, could the rump nation have ended up being a smaller, more stable, more urbanized, and wealthier polity?
 
Most likely not being bogged down but you bet Mexico is going to come for U.S and not to talk about rebels that's one of the reasons the U.S didn't annex any more of Mexico actual people lived further south of otl border people who don't want to be part of the United States
 
Just to clarify, did Polk want the entire Baja California Peninsula, or just the upper part?

EDIT: Is this map close to the expected outcome?
 

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Deleted member 109224

Most likely not being bogged down but you bet Mexico is going to come for U.S and not to talk about rebels that's one of the reasons the U.S didn't annex any more of Mexico actual people lived further south of otl border people who don't want to be part of the United States

The territories mentioned had about 600,000 people dispersed over a fairly large area. It's not as if they pulled an all-mexico annexation.
 
The territories mentioned had about 600,000 people dispersed over a fairly large area. It's not as if they pulled an all-mexico annexation.

From what research I've done on it, what was annexed and "All Mexico" were about the only realistic outcomes of the conflict. Mexican political will by late 1847/early 1848, even following the occupation of Mexico City, found the cession a tough pill to swallow and they likely would've demurred had the Americans pressed for more (Which was Polk's intentions, but Trist went rogue). By that point, American political will would've swung firmly in favor of "All Mexico"; any delay favors such.
 
Most likely not being bogged down but you bet Mexico is going to come for U.S and not to talk about rebels that's one of the reasons the U.S didn't annex any more of Mexico actual people lived further south of otl border people who don't want to be part of the United States

The places in question were pretty empty at the time. The rebels would be few and far between, and many of them would likely have to be from Mexico proper in ordering to have enough support to make rebellion worthwhile. Sonora had less than 200,000 people in 1895, and this would have been after 50 years of growth.
 
From what research I've done on it, what was annexed and "All Mexico" were about the only realistic outcomes of the conflict. Mexican political will by late 1847/early 1848, even following the occupation of Mexico City, found the cession a tough pill to swallow and they likely would've demurred had the Americans pressed for more (Which was Polk's intentions, but Trist went rogue). By that point, American political will would've swung firmly in favor of "All Mexico"; any delay favors such.

"All Mexico" was realistic?
 
I don't think all Mexico is even remotely possible; the new territories presented are the best scenario.

But does this smaller arguably more stable Mexico create an environment where revanchism can flourish and can actually be achieved by a Mexico that wants its lands back saying during the Civil War?
 
"All Mexico" was realistic?


Extremely so; to quote from The Slavery Question and the Movement to Acquire Mexico, 1846-1848 (The Mississippi Valley Historical Review, Vol. 21, No. 1 (Jun., 1934), pp. 31-48) by John D.P. Fuller:
Between October, 1847, and the following February the theme of the story underwent considerable alteration. By the latter date, as noted above, the National Era was advocating the absorption of Mexico, insisting that it would be free territory, and citing along with other evidence, Calhoun's opposition to annexation as proof that the anti-slavery interests had nothing to fear from extensive territorial acquisitions. In other words, the National Era was convinced that if there had been a "pro-slavery conspiracy" to acquire all Mexico, it could not realize its ends even though the whole country were annexed. This conviction seems to have come largely as a result of the propaganda, which was streaming from the northern expansionist press and the opposition of Calhoun.The editor probably reasoned that since Calhoun was opposing absorption the expansionists at the North must be correct. If the main body of the anti-slavery forces could be converted to this point of view, the movement for absorption which was growing rapidly at the time would doubtless become very strong indeed.

Care should be taken not to exaggerate the anti-slavery sentiment for all Mexico. It is evident that some such sentiment did exist, but there was not sufficient time for it to develop to significant proportions. The Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo had already been signed in Mexico when the National Era took up the cry of all Mexico with or without the Wilmot Proviso. In a short while the war was over and whatever anti-slavery sentiment there was for all Mexico collapsed along with the general expansion movement. Had the war continued several months longer it is not improbable that increasing numbers from the anti-slavery camp would have joined forces with those who were demanding the acquisition of Mexico. Their action would have been based on the assumption that they were undermining the position of the pro slavery forces. It was, not to be expected that those abolitionists, and there were undoubtedly some, who were using the bogey of "extension of slavery" to cover up other reasons for opposition to annexation, would have ever become convinced of the error of their ways. They would hold on to their pet theory to the bitter end.

To summarize briefly what seem to be the conclusions to be drawn from this study, it might be said that the chief support for the absorption of Mexico came from the North and West and from those whose pro-slavery or anti-slavery bias was not a prime consideration. In quarters where the attitude toward slavery was all-important there was, contrary to the accepted view, a "pro-slavery conspiracy" to prevent the acquisition of all Mexico and the beginnings of an "anti-slavery conspiracy" to secure all the territory in the Southwest that happened to be available. Behind both these movements was a belief that expansion would prove injurious to the slavery interest. Had the war continued much longer the two movements, would probably have developed strength and have become more easily discernible. Lack of time for expansionist sentiment to develop was the chief cause of this country's, failure to annex Mexico in 1848. Even as it was, however, there might have been sufficient demand for annexation in February and March, 1848, to have wrecked the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo had it not been for the opposition of pro-slavery Democrats led by Calhoun. Their attitude divided the party committed to expansion in the presence of a unified opposition. Whatever the motives which may be attributed to Calhoun and his friends, the fact remains that those who feel that the absorption of Mexico in 1848 would have meant permanent injury to the best interests of the United States, should be extremely grateful to those slaveholders. To them not a little credit is due for the fact that Mexico is to-day an independent nation.
 
I’m pretty sure the doubt of all-mexico’s validaty comes less from whether the Americans wanted to do so (history has proven that plenty of regimes can want whatever they like, regardless of realism) but the fact that America, for all its ability to stomp the Mexican army, would have a very, VERY hard time keeping the populous south of Mexico outright annexed. Think permanent Vietnam war on steroids.
 
Think permanent Vietnam war on steroids.

North Vietnam had outside support from the USSR and China right on its border, providing capital, training, equipment and arms, etc. Where could Mexico turn to for anything remotely similar in scope at that time?

Not saying the country couldn't throw the American yoke off at all. Just saying it would be a very different situation, and one possibly much harder for the Mexicanos.
 
North Vietnam had outside support from the USSR and China right on its border, providing capital, training, equipment and arms, etc. Where could Mexico turn to for anything remotely similar in scope at that time?

Not saying the country couldn't throw the American yoke off at all. Just saying it would be a very different situation, and one possibly much harder for the Mexicanos.
Poor comparison on my part. The point still stands, however. Sure they will invariably come out worse for wear than the Americans, but Mexicans will never come to permanently accept being part of the United States. And it won’t be long before American citizens start to get angry over all those bodies coming back home from “American territory”.
 
Extremely so; to quote from The Slavery Question and the Movement to Acquire Mexico, 1846-1848 (The Mississippi Valley Historical Review, Vol. 21, No. 1 (Jun., 1934), pp. 31-48) by John D.P. Fuller:

Hm

I recall @Jared didn't think All-Mexico was realistic at all and he knows much more about this period of American history than I do. Perhaps he'd like to give his input?
 
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