Politeia tōn Rhōmaiōn: The Restored Roman Republic

It is my understnding that the Fulani become predominantly Muslim far later in history.
Yeah, as a lot of them settled in the urban centers along the Sahel many were increasingly adopting a more mainstream Islam, one that had less room for pagan tolerance. But many probably had a thinly Islamized population, probably more predominant at the elite level though.

Sorry, I don't mean all the Fulani's entering Takrur are are fully orthodox Muslim; just that the Islamized Fulani's would enter and help in the creation of Takrur. I could see them as advisors in the pagan courts of the Sahelian states but Christians might be right behind them.

The bulk of the Fulani's should be still pagan or thinly Islamized though. Probably more Islamized than the sahelian peoples due to greater interaction with north african nomads.
 
I never said you did. I just ised the word impede as a synonym for dampen. Assume I meant dampen.
Well, Africans didn't have an alternative trade network. Hell the Portuguese completely destroyed native sea trade. My assumption is that the North-South-West trade will allow inner Africa access to goods from Europe and the East.
 
Well, Africans didn't have an alternative trade network. Hell the Portuguese completely destroyed native sea trade. My assumption is that the North-South-West trade will allow inner Africa access to goods from Europe and the East.

I’m not sure how that changes things, fundamentally. I could see more of the sea trade being conducted by local merchants. I could also see more trade going along the trans-Saharan caravans. But I don’t think that would change much of the materials (including slaves) being traded.
 
I’m not sure how that changes things, fundamentally. I could see more of the sea trade being conducted by local merchants. I could also see more trade going along the trans-Saharan caravans. But I don’t think that would change much of the materials (including slaves) being traded.
It will build up the interior sufficiently enough to resist slavers from the coast and thus stop the depopulating mass enslavement of the latter centuries. Nations do not naturally enslave their own citizens and many African polities were destroyed because they refuse to trade their own. What this alternate trade network does is giving inner Africa access to the outside world and speed up consolidation into Kingdoms/confederations etc... It wouldn't stop slavery but it's effects on Africa can be dampened.
 
It will build up the interior sufficiently enough to resist slavers from the coast and thus stop the depopulating mass enslavement of the latter centuries. Nations do not naturally enslave their own citizens and many African polities were destroyed because they refuse to trade their own. What this alternate trade network does is giving inner Africa access to the outside world and speed up consolidation into Kingdoms/confederations etc... It wouldn't stop slavery but it's effects on Africa can be dampened.

When you say slavers from the coasts, are you referring to coastal states in Africa, or European slavers operating on the coast?

Here is the scenario in which I find a dampening of the slave trade in this timeline to be the most likely: A large state, like Mali, controls most or all of the territory that would be home to good sources of slaves for Atlantic trade. Because of this, the African slave traders, whether they be under Malian rule or not, have little supply. An unintended consequence of this would be to raise the value of slaves to whatever the maximum the market could possibly bear.

However, if Mali does not directly control enough of such territory, then being powerful and sophisticated could actually operate in the opposite direction: as a powerful middleman in the slave trade. It could profit mightily by enslaving the people of neighboring states. And if it is more connected overall with the world trade networks - and internal African trade networks, this will likely increase the volume of the slave trade. In this scenario, the only reason I could see it dampening the slave trade would be as a trade tactic, to limit supply to maintain high prices (ultimately the same result as the scenario I propose in the preceding paragraph).

Whether the slaves are being shipped around on Roman, Malian, or other European ships, I don’t think the overall complexion of the trade will change much.
 
When you say slavers from the coasts, are you referring to coastal states in Africa, or European slavers operating on the coast?

Africa, like the Wolofs of Senegal.

Here is the scenario in which I find a dampening of the slave trade in this timeline to be the most likely: A large state, like Mali, controls most or all of the territory that would be home to good sources of slaves for Atlantic trade. Because of this, the African slave traders, whether they be under Malian rule or not, have little supply. An unintended consequence of this would be to raise the value of slaves to whatever the maximum the market could possibly bear.
True, Mali was an expansionist state, being half the size of continental USA, and Christianity is far more palatable in it's less stringent requirements so it would find fertile ground. Mali's system with an injection of Roman ideas would be a powerful thing. It's situation is similar to Rome's own beginnings, a powerful, sophisticated state surrounded by tribal peoples.

However, if Mali does not directly control enough of such territory, then being powerful and sophisticated could actually operate in the opposite direction: as a powerful middleman in the slave trade. It could profit mightily by enslaving the people of neighboring states. And if it is more connected overall with the world trade networks - and internal African trade networks, this will likely increase the volume of the slave trade. In this scenario, the only reason I could see it dampening the slave trade would be as a trade tactic, to limit supply to maintain high prices (ultimately the same result as the scenario I propose in the preceding paragraph).
In this scenario Mali might eventually absorb it's weakened neighbors.

It would probably limit the trade of female slaves since a balanced ratio of males and females, as had happened in the late 18th century US, means a self perpetuating slave population which would be bad for business. Might buy females at a premium to deny them to Europeans only to breed it's own slave population for sale.

As bad as it sounds it's a highly likely scenario. Though I'd like to think that they would put a lid on it once the scale and racist tone becomes known to the average Malian.
 
I can see the purchasing of slaves is more about prestige than a particular need. Maybe slaves would take up guard positions or roles as domestic servants.
 
I can see the purchasing of slaves is more about prestige than a particular need. Maybe slaves would take up guard positions or roles as domestic servants.

With the advent of plantation agriculture and major cash crops once America is rediscovered, I’d say the economic need will be pretty substantial.
 
With the advent of plantation agriculture and major cash crops once America is rediscovered, I’d say the economic need will be pretty substantial.
Why would the romans be the ones to discover america? They have no reason whatsoever to head west that I can see.
Also, "rediscovered"?
 
Why would the romans be the ones to discover america? They have no reason whatsoever to head west that I can see.
Also, "rediscovered"?

I’ve got loads of other players doing stuff in this story, and I have a general idea of who the major colonial powers will be. The English, it won’t spoil things much to say, will (probably) play at least as big a role in the colonial era as they did in our history. Rome will have a role to play in that game, but I haven’t completely decided what it will be.

As for your second question, I’ll direct you to:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...d-roman-republic.386625/page-14#post-13961514
 
Off the top of my head, Syrian Arabs, Italians, Berbers, and Slavs.
Where are the Slavs and Arabs? The Italians are Romans and the Berbers are clients.

The Syrian Arabs are largely outside of Roman direct rule, being in the Crusader States. I’m sure some are less than thrilled with the Crusaders ruling over them, but as long as the peace is kept, and nobody gets too fanatical about differences in doctrine and religion, things should be fine.

The Italians are pretty happy being part of the Roman state, just like they’ve usually been. They’re represented in thr government at many levels, and while Greek has pride of place in the capital, Latin is not particularly far behind.

The Berbers are fairly well integrated into the Republic, if not auite as well as the Italians. Historically, they were usually pretty content under Roman rule, aside from the occasional revolts when the Empire was being heavy handed.

The Balkan Slavs have probably known more years under Roman rule than they have been indepdent, by this point.

If anyone would be restless, it would be the Magyars under Roman rule, but that is more of a nomad vs sedentary thing than an ethnic concern.

Thanks for the question!
 
do the Romans own the Balearic islands or are they a vessel because they aren't on the most resent map of the republic
 
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