Politeia tōn Rhōmaiōn: The Restored Roman Republic
- Thread starter DominusNovus
- Start date
To clarify: I do not think that secular and ecclesiastical power are more intertwined than in our medieval world as a whole, but that they're more closely aligned with one state.
I mean the Feudal Monarchies of Europe, the republic has been a republic for centuries now so it has no Divine Right; although Roman Emperors were consider divine and were deify upon death which is probably were the whole originated comes from.
We haven't Radical Preist that side with people as yet, You know ones... John Ball,
Taborites, Thomas Müntzer.
Or have seen the creation of Switzerland as yet
The Birth of the Mongol Empire
The Birth of the Mongol Empire
The Turkish Empire founded by Temur Arslan had effectively completely died out by the early years of the 12th century. The more civilized regions in which the Turks had dominated threw off the yoke of their former masters, and the steppe lands beyond became a restless and fluid as they ever were. The nomadic pastoralists that inhabited those lands were fractious by nature, and the norm was disunity, rather than unity. It took strong and visionary leadership for the hordes of steppe warriors to be properly led against the sedentary peoples, and though such leadership was rare, it was not as rare as the farmers and city dwellers would have liked.
In the chaotic ashes of the former empire, around AD 1177, a boy was born among the Keraites, one of the tribes nearest the Wu Empire of China, named Yesugei. The Keraites were one of the several tribes that in the previous centuries had largely converted to Nestorian Christianity, a feature which marked them out from many of their neighbors, though the Bayads and Naimans were also predominantly Nestorian. Yesugei was the son of one of the foremost leaders among his tribe, Tolui. At the time of Yesugei's youth, likely in his teens, the Keraites were allied to the Wu Dynasty, and Tolui sent Yesugei to the imperial court at Nanjing, initially as a political hostage, but eventually as a warrior among the allied cavalry for the Wu army. At this time, the Wu were facing internal unrest - though they had unified the majority of China under their administration, the northeast had never capitulated, and rival monarchs ruled there.
Yesugei's clansmen that accompanied the youth did not allow him to forget his roots, and, though he learned the ways of the Chinese, he lived in the austere lifestyle that was appropriate for the nomads. Shortly before he turned 20, Yesugei learned that his father and older brothers had been killed in the political intrigue back among his people, and his family was out of power. He was granted permission from the Imperial court to return to his homeland, as he had won friends among the officials of the court. Even those among the officialdom that did not trust him - not that he was prominent enough to have many enemies - figured that he would likely die in the attempt to avenge his family, and did not block his exodus.
Yesugei returned to the Keraites in the year AD 1197, though his efforts to kill those responsible for his family's deaths were unsuccessful, and he was captured and sold into slavery, eventually ending up as the property of a Khamag chieftan, Hulan. Hulan saw much potential in the bold Yesugei, particularly after his new slave repeatedly escaped, though he endured whatever punishment Hulan meted to him without objection. In addition to being a skilled fighter, Yesugei was also fluent in several dialects of Chinese, and Hulan eventually freed him and granted him a place of honor among his household. Yesugei won many battles for Hulan, who was content to be the first among equals among his people, rather than an overlord. Yesugei received permission to return to his people from Hulan in AD 1200, returning at the head of a small band of hardened warriors.
Yesugei's second attempt at revenge was far more successful than his first, and he personally slew several of the men he held responsible for his family's demise, and was able to rescue several survivors of his blood. His courage, persistence, and military skill won him great renown among his people, and it was with this success that his rise to power truly began. He offered himself as an ally to those he considered most amenable to his ambitions, and he gathered among himself the best and most capable of the tribes, regardless of their rank or ancestry. Yesugei began to campaign against any that opposed his allies, racking up victories against a wide variety of tribes.
One of Yesugei's chief insights was that the nature of steppe life was inherently fluid, and a meritocratic system was the only way to succeed - the great empires of China could rely on hereditary nobility due to their static nature, but even they knew how important advancement by merit was. However, Yesugei knew that because of the fluid nature of the steppe tribes, he could create a new identity from his successes, as long as they kept coming. Though there had long been cultural ties between the people of the region, it was under Yesugei that a firm identity began to coalesce. He viewed the people of his homeland not as Keraites or Naimans or Khamags or Oirats, but as Mongols - the brave.
Yesugei lead his infant state to a string of victories, and was declared Khan of the Mongols in AD 1207, his former master, Hulan, among the foremost of those rallying around his banner. The following year, the Wu Emperor honored Yesugei as Wang Khan - effectively titling him a Prince in their eyes - and offering him a Chinese princess, named Meng, as a bride. There are conflicting accounts as to whether or not they had met when Yesugei was in the court, but the poets largely prefer to say that they had longed for each other in his days in the capital, and were overjoyed to be reunited. Though historians have little evidence to this, and note that Yesugei had several wives already, there is no evidence against the more poetic version of their relationship.
With the recognition of the Chinese bolstering his credibility, Yesugei was acknowledged by the rest of the tribes in the region as their supreme leader, and he adopted a new title and name. Forgoing the Chinese styling of Wang Khan, he became Genghis Khan, the supreme ruler. Though the title was a direct challenge to the authority of the Wu Emperor, Genghis had no intentions of attacking the Wu. They were far too powerful to confront head-on, and were also quite useful as an ally. However, he had no such compunctions about attacking the other Chinese states, those in the Northeast that refused to recognize the suzerainty of the Wu Emperor. The last holdout, Youzhou (Beijing) fell to the attackers in AD 1211, and Genghis Khan now held sway over all of China not ruled by his 'heavenly father' the Emperor of Wu. With the fall of so many Chinese cities under his new empire, Genghis had all he would need to conquer much of the known world. His steppe armies were already battle-hardened and focused no longer on infighting but on expansion, and he had the Chinese working tirelessly on creating as many gunpowder weapons for his armies as possible. He would not just be a conqueror like Attila or Temur Arslan, Genghis Khan would rewrite world history.
End
The Turkish Empire founded by Temur Arslan had effectively completely died out by the early years of the 12th century. The more civilized regions in which the Turks had dominated threw off the yoke of their former masters, and the steppe lands beyond became a restless and fluid as they ever were. The nomadic pastoralists that inhabited those lands were fractious by nature, and the norm was disunity, rather than unity. It took strong and visionary leadership for the hordes of steppe warriors to be properly led against the sedentary peoples, and though such leadership was rare, it was not as rare as the farmers and city dwellers would have liked.
In the chaotic ashes of the former empire, around AD 1177, a boy was born among the Keraites, one of the tribes nearest the Wu Empire of China, named Yesugei. The Keraites were one of the several tribes that in the previous centuries had largely converted to Nestorian Christianity, a feature which marked them out from many of their neighbors, though the Bayads and Naimans were also predominantly Nestorian. Yesugei was the son of one of the foremost leaders among his tribe, Tolui. At the time of Yesugei's youth, likely in his teens, the Keraites were allied to the Wu Dynasty, and Tolui sent Yesugei to the imperial court at Nanjing, initially as a political hostage, but eventually as a warrior among the allied cavalry for the Wu army. At this time, the Wu were facing internal unrest - though they had unified the majority of China under their administration, the northeast had never capitulated, and rival monarchs ruled there.
Yesugei's clansmen that accompanied the youth did not allow him to forget his roots, and, though he learned the ways of the Chinese, he lived in the austere lifestyle that was appropriate for the nomads. Shortly before he turned 20, Yesugei learned that his father and older brothers had been killed in the political intrigue back among his people, and his family was out of power. He was granted permission from the Imperial court to return to his homeland, as he had won friends among the officials of the court. Even those among the officialdom that did not trust him - not that he was prominent enough to have many enemies - figured that he would likely die in the attempt to avenge his family, and did not block his exodus.
Yesugei returned to the Keraites in the year AD 1197, though his efforts to kill those responsible for his family's deaths were unsuccessful, and he was captured and sold into slavery, eventually ending up as the property of a Khamag chieftan, Hulan. Hulan saw much potential in the bold Yesugei, particularly after his new slave repeatedly escaped, though he endured whatever punishment Hulan meted to him without objection. In addition to being a skilled fighter, Yesugei was also fluent in several dialects of Chinese, and Hulan eventually freed him and granted him a place of honor among his household. Yesugei won many battles for Hulan, who was content to be the first among equals among his people, rather than an overlord. Yesugei received permission to return to his people from Hulan in AD 1200, returning at the head of a small band of hardened warriors.
Yesugei's second attempt at revenge was far more successful than his first, and he personally slew several of the men he held responsible for his family's demise, and was able to rescue several survivors of his blood. His courage, persistence, and military skill won him great renown among his people, and it was with this success that his rise to power truly began. He offered himself as an ally to those he considered most amenable to his ambitions, and he gathered among himself the best and most capable of the tribes, regardless of their rank or ancestry. Yesugei began to campaign against any that opposed his allies, racking up victories against a wide variety of tribes.
One of Yesugei's chief insights was that the nature of steppe life was inherently fluid, and a meritocratic system was the only way to succeed - the great empires of China could rely on hereditary nobility due to their static nature, but even they knew how important advancement by merit was. However, Yesugei knew that because of the fluid nature of the steppe tribes, he could create a new identity from his successes, as long as they kept coming. Though there had long been cultural ties between the people of the region, it was under Yesugei that a firm identity began to coalesce. He viewed the people of his homeland not as Keraites or Naimans or Khamags or Oirats, but as Mongols - the brave.
Yesugei lead his infant state to a string of victories, and was declared Khan of the Mongols in AD 1207, his former master, Hulan, among the foremost of those rallying around his banner. The following year, the Wu Emperor honored Yesugei as Wang Khan - effectively titling him a Prince in their eyes - and offering him a Chinese princess, named Meng, as a bride. There are conflicting accounts as to whether or not they had met when Yesugei was in the court, but the poets largely prefer to say that they had longed for each other in his days in the capital, and were overjoyed to be reunited. Though historians have little evidence to this, and note that Yesugei had several wives already, there is no evidence against the more poetic version of their relationship.
With the recognition of the Chinese bolstering his credibility, Yesugei was acknowledged by the rest of the tribes in the region as their supreme leader, and he adopted a new title and name. Forgoing the Chinese styling of Wang Khan, he became Genghis Khan, the supreme ruler. Though the title was a direct challenge to the authority of the Wu Emperor, Genghis had no intentions of attacking the Wu. They were far too powerful to confront head-on, and were also quite useful as an ally. However, he had no such compunctions about attacking the other Chinese states, those in the Northeast that refused to recognize the suzerainty of the Wu Emperor. The last holdout, Youzhou (Beijing) fell to the attackers in AD 1211, and Genghis Khan now held sway over all of China not ruled by his 'heavenly father' the Emperor of Wu. With the fall of so many Chinese cities under his new empire, Genghis had all he would need to conquer much of the known world. His steppe armies were already battle-hardened and focused no longer on infighting but on expansion, and he had the Chinese working tirelessly on creating as many gunpowder weapons for his armies as possible. He would not just be a conqueror like Attila or Temur Arslan, Genghis Khan would rewrite world history.
End
@DominusNovus so you're planning to give the Romans a proper enemy with the Mongols
My philosophy is that much of world history will be at least recognizable. So, I figured that there’s going to be a Genghis Khan, even if its a different person. And his empire will spread pretty darn far. The question is how far?
Unless they kill every literate person in the world, the timeline will go on.
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Honestly though I don't think they could move too many troops to fight the Romans given the distances and if the Wu decide they need to end this threat fast; maybe even coordinating an attack with the Romans if possible (ie: attacking at around the same time so he can't deploy all of his troops and whatnot). And given they're in Northern China it'd make more sense for them to go after Korea, Manchuria and maybe Japan given they could reasonably expand yet still have troops close enough to reinforce the homeland if need be. Though them being Nestorian is interesting though I wonder if the alt Genghis Khan is Nestorian or if he even cares whether or not it spreads throughout the Mongols.
On a side note: does this Wu dynasty control the Tarim basin or is that up for grabs?
On a side note: does this Wu dynasty control the Tarim basin or is that up for grabs?
The Tarim is likely already under Mongol control, as is what we would call Manchuria. I’ll figure out a map at some point this week. That said, I’d be very amazed if China and Rome could coordinate at this point in history. Yesugei-Genghis Khan is, indeed, a Nestorian, though he has the typical steppe attitude on religion.
He’s about 15 years younger, give or take.
China was not conquered in a single war, but in several wars over multiple generations. This conquest is actually fairly similar to OTL.
Correct. They have less territory than the historical Genghis was able to conquer, because the Wu control a bit more of Northern China than the Song did, but they also took it somewhat more easily because the territory was not united under a single northern dynasty.
Should it come to war between the Mongols and Wu, there’s no particular reason that the Wu would do better than the Song. However, for the moment, the Mongols are staunch allies tht are happy to guard the Wu’s northern frontier for, ahem, reasonable compensation. Filial bonds and all that. The Wu Emperor is Genghis’ father-in-law, after all. And dynastic ties could never have any unforeseen consequences, could they?
Hmmm... I suppose a scenario in which the imperial court or other influential portion of the Wu prefers the Khan to the heir - or lack thereof - is possible. That said, I find it far more likely that, should the Khan end up on the imperial throne, it will be through active manuevering.