Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the Scramble for Africa

Let's say the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth survive and they have a decent Navy

Would they want to be in on the Scramble for Africa?
 
What do they need a decent navy for? Their coastline is small and the only sea they have access to is a sea locked behind a sea.

It's not like the PLC can hope to to outspend or outbuild any of their neighbors that actually matter, namely Russia and Germany, so what's the point in wasting money there?
 
What do they need a decent navy for? Their coastline is small and the only sea they have access to is a sea locked behind a sea.

It's not like the PLC can hope to to outspend or outbuild any of their neighbors that actually matter, namely Russia and Germany, so what's the point in wasting money there?

That depends if there is a Germany as united nation, with PLC surviving and strong enough to think about colonization, Prussia is much weaker and... the butterflies go from there. So yes, PLC might be able to outbuild Prussia. And Russia was more interested in conquering the rest of Central Asia and Siberia, anyway.
Now, would PLC be interested in Africanc colonies? Here I agree with Augenis: PLC geographical position makes that unlikely. It is possible for PLC to try for some minor colonies mostly for prestige (look, we have colonies; we are powerful!), but IMO there would be no attempt for anything larger.
 
Why? To show the world they are a great power?
Neither Russia, nor Austro-Hungary felt the need to show that during the scramble. Only Germany and Italy truly did*. And they were only recently created countries, who had to prove themselves. PLC would have been around for quite a while and would not have to prove themselves, just like Austria-Hungary OTL.

Mind you, I think the entire concept of the scramble of Africa would be butterflied away with a POD you need to get a surviving PLC.Even if we get something similar, it would be very different than OTL. The Cape could still be Dutch. Belgium might not be independent. Germany might not even exist!

*the other countries, Britain, France, Spain and Portugal were countries already involved in Africa, Belgium is of course a different story
 
What do they need a decent navy for? Their coastline is small and the only sea they have access to is a sea locked behind a sea.

It's not like the PLC can hope to to outspend or outbuild any of their neighbors that actually matter, namely Russia and Germany, so what's the point in wasting money there?



But Russia was not looking for the colonies in Africa and Germany went into that race quite late. After all Courland was vassal of the PLC and DID get colony in Africa (for a while) so why not the PLC? At least in the early XVII its navy (or Danzig navy?) was good enough for dealing with the Swedes so if we assume <a long list of things to assume starting with an absence of the pertitions or at least retaining Danzig ;)> then, yes, PLC may get some piece of the African coast as long as nobody else wants it. This could be even a monarch's enterprise, as was the case with Leopold II of Belgium who got, as a result of the Berlin Conference 2,344,000 km2 for his single-shareholder "philanthropic" organization as the Congo Free State privately controlled by Leopold II through a non-governmental organization. Get some ATL Polish monarch ahead of Leopold and you have a nice Polish colony (which later could be annexed by the state). :winkytongue:
 
Let's say the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth survive and they have a decent Navy

Would they want to be in on the Scramble for Africa?
Probably not without a POD which does more than just ensure their survival. With and early enough POD they could perhaps have taken over Courland's colonies, and that could serve as a impetus for further expansion. The "Scramble" for Africa is a bit of a misnomer, most of the participants, and all of the big winners (other than Belgium), were states which had had presence and interests in those regions for centuries before hand. States which didn't and were instead motivated only by prestige (Italy and Germany) ended up with rather slim pickings.
 

The Avenger

Banned
But Russia was not looking for the colonies in Africa and Germany went into that race quite late. After all Courland was vassal of the PLC and DID get colony in Africa (for a while) so why not the PLC? At least in the early XVII its navy (or Danzig navy?) was good enough for dealing with the Swedes so if we assume <a long list of things to assume starting with an absence of the pertitions or at least retaining Danzig ;)> then, yes, PLC may get some piece of the African coast as long as nobody else wants it. This could be even a monarch's enterprise, as was the case with Leopold II of Belgium who got, as a result of the Berlin Conference 2,344,000 km2 for his single-shareholder "philanthropic" organization as the Congo Free State privately controlled by Leopold II through a non-governmental organization. Get some ATL Polish monarch ahead of Leopold and you have a nice Polish colony (which later could be annexed by the state). :winkytongue:
If Poland (OK, Poland-Lithuania) annexes its African colony/ies, then we could eventually see a lot of Blacks move into Poland (and Lithuania as well). That would be interesting.
 
The PLC through Courland had an African colony for a few decades in the mid-1600s. Maybe the PLC never sells it in this alternate timeline, and somehow this butterflies the partitions, but not the scramble for Africa. Then this could be expanded slightly, though probably not by much. Maybe Polish Gambia, but that's probably about it.
 
If Poland (OK, Poland-Lithuania) annexes its African colony/ies, then we could eventually see a lot of Blacks move into Poland (and Lithuania as well). That would be interesting.

"Eventually" as in the XXI century? Well, this is outside of our timeline so I'll keep my mouth shut. x'D
 
Top