Poles in a central power victory
- Thread starter walmart
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Germany and A-H wanted to agree a plan, was to created a small poland under either a Hohenzollern or a Habsburg and chance they might have get a plebiscite over galicia...but they never agree, the plan was recreated poland but never how would be and who would lead it.
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Yeah but of which one or on which degree they never agreed fully. At the end might got a congress poland under one of willy kids or a minor habsburg then
And there was another problem... the Poles didn't support it. After the Oath Crisis, in which Jozef Pilsudski abandoned the Central Powers when he discovered how hollow this new Polish state would be, 1/4 of the Poles serving in the Central Powers' Polish Legions refused to swear allegiance to the Kaiser. This caused the Kaiser to begin plans for the formation of a 'Royal Polish Army', which, judging by this lieutenant's uniform, was only going to be Polish in name only. The Germans even contemptuously called this proposed army 'the Polnische Wehrmacht'
The plan was for 70,000 Poles to join this new formation. In the end, only 9,000 joined by October 1918.
And as a last kick in the guts, Germany planned to expel 2 million Poles and 3 million Jews from particular areas of Poland and settle Germans in the area.
The so called area was of septemberprogamm...we dunno if was official and might have change of plans and that more sense the 'make Imperial german proto-nazis' anedoctes too.
Of Course no
"Germany" didn't, Ludendorff (and a few others) did... there's a big difference there. Hoffman counseled the Kaiser against taking too large of a "Polish Border Strip"... considering that I've NEVER seen a definitive map of any planned annexation in Congress Poland, I'd say that anything calling for expulsions of millions of Poles and Jews is sheer hyperbole and conjecture...
No one cared about them but could be the dark horse candidate of a congress poland them, as Galicia Oil is too vital for A-H economy.
Is a Myth, they want to paint as german as always evil(see WW movie as example)
Riain
Banned
There were conflicting ideas on what to do in Poland in 1918. Ludy wanted to take a big border strip but I don't know if he wanted huge expuslsion, but Hoffmann suggested a very small border adjustment and put this to the Kaiser who agreed. I believe one of the reasons behind the small adjustment is that the big adjustment would bring a lot of Poles into Germany proper.
Ah the end of the day..i think we will never know but i think Kaiserreich pushed the best...nothing and just proclaim a small kingdom of poland instead. Yeah put a wettins on it and call a day. Again germany and Austria have bigger plans for Ukraine and the baltics(Bielorussia and Finland included too)
Hoffmann wanted only "rather modest" border rectifications "to improve the defences of Thorn, Soldau and the Upper Silesian coal mines.... It is worth noting, however, that the general's moderate proposal stemmed less from an innate reasonableness and/or opposition to annexations per se and more from a typically Prussian dislike of Poles as an alien, unassimilable population in the Prussian East.." https://books.google.com/books?id=J2spDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA63
Cuirassier
Banned
Depends when the war ends. Most likely a Polish state made out of Russian Poland under Germany.
I don't know if the Germans had even talked to the Habsburgs about it.
I don't know if the Germans had even talked to the Habsburgs about it.
So he didn’t want to annex more Polish territories than to protect a few strategic locations, because he didn’t think the Poles wanted to be Germans and you couldn’t force them to become so? What is exactly unreasonable about that?
I think the author's point is that Hoffmann was not necessarily a champion of moderation, self-determination and no-annexations in general. In short his reasonableness in this case should not be seen as evidence of "an innate reasonableness" (emphasis added).
I think they did but never ended into nothing, Habsburg wanted the bigger prize of ukraine it seems.
So yeah a Russia Poland under a Hohenzollern or a Wettis