Poland as a willing member of the Axis

I get the impression this "Hurgan" is a Bard/Blair type user. Right?

An obsessive lunatic from Poland who periodically turns up under a new username and propagates the theory that Germans dream of Lebensraum before cutting their first teeth, have always done so, and probably always will.

Charming bloke. ;)
 
An obsessive lunatic from Poland who periodically turns up under a new username and propagates the theory that Germans dream of Lebensraum before cutting their first teeth, have always done so, and probably always will.

Charming bloke. ;)

This should be his Wiki entry.
 
On behalf of the Polish State and Polish People, I apologize for our disproportionate number of trolls. :( In the event that the Polish State takes issue with this, I meant it in jest.

RE: Poland in Axis. It's rather difficult. If you wish to keep Germany in the Axis, you'll need to remove Hitler and put someone more moderate in power. Goering seems reasonably sane (compared to Hitler).

However, there is another way. Mussolini had long wanted to prevent the union between Germany and Austria. Poland wanted complete control of Silesia and Danzig/Gdansk. Rome-Warsaw Axis against Berlin anyone?

(really, I'm taking shots in the dark here. How plausible is this?)
 

Kristo

Banned
(really, I'm taking shots in the dark here. How plausible is this?)
Implausible. German politicians didn't view Poland as legitimate country and wouldn't agree to anything less than annexation of its western part and turning the less into a puppet state. Which the Polish politicians knew quite well.

Make it more interesting. Have Poland be fascist, allied to fascist Italy. Ruled by Endecja it is more friendly to gestures of alliance with Czechs(as Endecja feared Germans as the main enemy of Poland, and was interested in neoslavism as ideology). Than the Axis is Italy-Czech-Polish alliance that goes to war over Anschluss of Austria.
 
Implausible. German politicians didn't view Poland as legitimate country and wouldn't agree to anything less than annexation of its western part and turning the less into a puppet state. Which the Polish politicians knew quite well.

facepalm.jpg
 

Kristo

Banned
Fun fact-Italy was hostile initially to Hitler. Fascist Endecja was friendly to Czechs more than democratic Polish government. History is ironic.
 
Yes, it was quasi-fascist, hated Russians, would welcome Germans, and always was interested in the East. The usuall AH.com stereotypes.

I don't think Poland will ever be forgiven for not expanding east as it should always have. Anyone expanding West is violating rules of nature don't you know. :rolleyes:
 

Kristo

Banned
I don't think Poland will ever be forgiven for not expanding east as it should always have. Anyone expanding West is violating rules of nature don't you know. :rolleyes:
What annoys me in AH.com scenarios(besides the usuall lack of historic knowledge) is the fact that for some reason, Poles are always obsessed with attacking Russia, hating Russia, despising Russia. All the political factions like Endecja, Wielopolski, or pro-Russian attitude of much of nobility during early XIX century is usually ignored. Likewise Pilsudski always controls interwar Poland. I have yet to encounter a scenario where he fails to take over power, or a scenario where the pro-Russian factions succeed.

It is as for some reason the AH.comers believe Poles have genetic hatred for Russia, while being totally careless about Germany, completely ignoring for example the pan-slavism of Dmowski, or the division of nobility during early XIX century.

 
It is as for some reason the AH.comers believe Poles have genetic hatred for Russia, while being totally careless about Germany,

No, but you have an insane hatred for Germany, while being totally careless about anything else.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
What annoys me in AH.com scenarios(besides the usuall lack of historic knowledge) is the fact that for some reason, Poles are always obsessed with attacking Russia, hating Russia, despising Russia. All the political factions like Endecja, Wielopolski, or pro-Russian attitude of much of nobility during early XIX century is usually ignored. Likewise Pilsudski always controls interwar Poland. I have yet to encounter a scenario where he fails to take over power, or a scenario where the pro-Russian factions succeed.

It is as for some reason the AH.comers believe Poles have genetic hatred for Russia, while being totally careless about Germany, completely ignoring for example the pan-slavism of Dmowski, or the division of nobility during early XIX century.

The only knowledge AH.com scenarios tend to lack is your insane view of history.
 
What annoys me in AH.com scenarios(besides the usuall lack of historic knowledge) is the fact that for some reason, Poles are always obsessed with attacking Russia, hating Russia, despising Russia. All the political factions like Endecja, Wielopolski, or pro-Russian attitude of much of nobility during early XIX century is usually ignored. Likewise Pilsudski always controls interwar Poland. I have yet to encounter a scenario where he fails to take over power, or a scenario where the pro-Russian factions succeed.

It is as for some reason the AH.comers believe Poles have genetic hatred for Russia, while being totally careless about Germany, completely ignoring for example the pan-slavism of Dmowski, or the division of nobility during early XIX century.

Russia, historically, was the greater threat. For over a century before the Partitions, the Russians stole our eastern territories (especially by supporting the Cossacks). Russia took the already small Duchy of Warsaw that Napoleon established, and shrank it further. And then, to top off a century of deporting Polish nationalists, the Russians went and disintegrated...only to be replaced by a Communist nation bent on Global Revolution, which saw Poland as, in Lenin's words, the bridge to the proletariots of Germany, France, and Britain, a bridge that the Red Army had to cross before Europe could rise in Revolution. It is only natural that the Poles who opposed Russian expansionism would take power, and Pilsudski was the highest among them. And Pilsudski appealed to Polish Romantic Nationalism, especially in his attempts at a Second Polish Commonwealth (Miedzymorze).

Panslavism was no more than Russian Nationalism in a friendly face. Sure, union of the Slavic people...under a goverment in Moscow, centered on the Tsar. And Dmowski in particular was not just a Pan-slavist, but an Anti-Semite (really just a few steps from Hitler), and a conspiracy theorist who blamed Poland's problems on Masonic Zionism, connected to the President of Poland. The reason AH.com has any bias toward Pilsudski is that, despite his flaws, he is the sane option for postwar Polish leader.
 
Top