PODs/TL ideas about American Liberalism?

Technocrat

Banned
Leaving out the obvious JFK lives, Teddy runs after RFK dies, and the not obvious but covered on these boards, such as "Wellstone Lives".

Party of Roosevelt
The New Deal Coalition never collapses; perhaps due to avoiding the debacle of the Vietnam war and the disaffection of the youth from liberalism, perhaps due to no George McGovern challenge to Jimmy Carter or no DLC overreaction to the McGovern run, perhaps due to something completely different.

Bombthrowing Anarchists
Civil libertarian liberals and progressives, called "bombthrowers" by LBJ when they were young in the 1960's, take over the Democratic Party and make it a more successful match against organized hard right conservatism.

Johnson Democracy
Scoop Jackson creates "neoconservatism" within the Democratic Party while Goldwater continues to shape "neoliberalism" within the Republican Party. Jackson's "LBJ Democrats" take power and shape the late Cold War years, fighting against poverty and for the rights of ethnic minorities while pursuing a strong multilateral but aggressive approach to international affairs and being more than willing - like FDR and JFK - to curb civil liberties in the name of the greater good.

Peace, Justice, Progress
Henry Wallace, after his failed 1948 third party Progressive run, continues to shape and build up the party, reunites it with the Socialists (who left due to his previous naivety about the Soviets), and eventually the Progressive party replaces the one of the two major parties as the anti-conservative choice (the remaining conservative party could be Republicans or could be Dixiecratic reclaimed Democrats).

"What Did The New Deal Ever Do For Liberalism?"
Liberal republican Thomas Dewey wins out against Harry Truman in the 1948 presidential election, killing the defense-industrial complex in its cradle and creating a legacy of a liberal Republican party and a liberal movement that uses the "fiscal conservatism" buzzwords of conservative Republicans from OTL.
 
One of the ideas I'm toying with (and have attempted before) is a New Deal that goes better because Roosevelt isn't so tight with the budget and isn't afraid to deficit spend early on. Basically you end up with national health insurance in 1938 and the Democrats continue to kick ass in the years afterwards.

Or there's always the idea of drafting Eleanor Roosevelt for POTUS...

I think the Johnson Democrats one has the best potential for a surviving liberal coalition. You just have to make sure that the Democrats don't alienate white ethnics and get someone like Scoop Jackson in the White House.
 
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gridlocked

Banned
Dixie Progressive

Nixon wins the tight 1960 election. Liberalism never defines itself synonymous with Civil Rights and Abortion Rights. Instead southern liberals who are patrician, economically liberal, but socially moderate to conservative (Fulbright?, Gore Sr?) define liberalism for the next 30 years.


They Stress the universal lunch pail themes of economic justice for the common man as well as Unions, strong anti-poverty programs, pro-industrial growth (industrial policy), guaranteed minimum income, and universal healthcare; directly building on the New Deal. They take baby steps on divisive social issues which can wreck the dominant liberal coalition while advancing liberal aims here and abroad. This would make southern progressives, unions, and the downscale voters of all races (who tend not to be socially liberal on issues like abortion etc.) the heart of the liberal coalition. As since reconstruction the democrats dominate the South while being competitive almost everywhere else.

The Republican party is strongest in the Northeast and the Mountain West. It has its greatest support from those who want less government interference. "Government should keep its hands from our wallets (tax cuts) and from a woman's womb "(abortion and other social issues including environmentalism). The Republicans split the black vote with the democrats
 
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Nixon wins tight the 1960 election. Liberalism never defines itself synonymous with Civil Rights and Abortion Rights. Instead southern liberals who are patrician, economically liberal, but socially moderate to conservative (Fulbright?, Gore Sr?) define liberalism for the next 30 years.


They Stress the universal lunch pail themes of economic justice for the common man as well as Unions, strong anti-poverty programs, pro-industrial growth, guaranteed minimum income, and universal healthcare; directly building on the New Deal. They take baby steps on divisive social issues which can wreck the dominant liberal coalition while advancing liberal aims here and abroad. This would make southern progressives, unions, and the downscale voters of all races (who tend not to be socially liberal on issues like abortion etc.) the heart of the liberal coalition. As since reconstruction the democrats dominate the South while being competitive almost everywhere else.

The Republican party is strongest in the Northeast and the Mountain West. It has its greatest support from those who want less government interference. "Government should keep its hands from our wallets (tax cuts) and from a woman's womb "(abortion and other social issues including environmentalism). The Republicans split the black vote with the democrats

While I have no doubt that the South can be kept in the Democratic column if Democrats give enough of a damn to campaign in the South in it post-Civil Rights (the seventies saw the election of moderate, pro-civil rights Democrats to Congress in most of the South), I doubt that the black vote will be competitive unless the Republicans are responsible for pushing through Civil Rights legislation. The Party of Roosevelt and Jackson became the home of African-American voters in the thirties largely because of the patrician attitude of the Republicans, which threw Civil Rights out in order to support the politics of plutocracy.

Building on that, if the Democrats remain more socially conservative than not, they should still get most of the African-American vote. African-Americans and Latinos are the most socially conservative elements of the Democratic Party, after all.
 
Nixon wins the tight 1960 election. Liberalism never defines itself synonymous with Civil Rights and Abortion Rights. Instead southern liberals who are patrician, economically liberal, but socially moderate to conservative (Fulbright?, Gore Sr?) define liberalism for the next 30 years.


They Stress the universal lunch pail themes of economic justice for the common man as well as Unions, strong anti-poverty programs, pro-industrial growth (industrial policy), guaranteed minimum income, and universal healthcare; directly building on the New Deal. They take baby steps on divisive social issues which can wreck the dominant liberal coalition while advancing liberal aims here and abroad. This would make southern progressives, unions, and the downscale voters of all races (who tend not to be socially liberal on issues like abortion etc.) the heart of the liberal coalition. As since reconstruction the democrats dominate the South while being competitive almost everywhere else.

The Republican party is strongest in the Northeast and the Mountain West. It has its greatest support from those who want less government interference. "Government should keep its hands from our wallets (tax cuts) and from a woman's womb "(abortion and other social issues including environmentalism). The Republicans split the black vote with the democrats

This is probably a very good POD. Nixon could makes ground on the black vote which he did in the '60 election.
 
A Benedictine Light - President Eugene McCarthy

After JFK falters in his 1960 nomination speech (puking all over the lectern and being forced to the hospital) and Eugene McCarthy delivers 'one hell of a speech' commending Adlai Stevenson to the 1960 Democratic National Convention. Adlai Stevenson emerges to take on Nixon as the third time champion of the Democrats. As a reward for Eugene's speech he picks Eugene McCarthy to be his running mate.

Stevenson loses to Richard Nixon in 1960 by a narrow - but still decisive margin.

1964 rolls around and Eugene McCarthy is the sacrificial candidate against a popular Nixon who wins by a decisive margin.

1968 rolls around and Eugene McCarthy wins the Democratic nomination by a narrow margin - beating Robert Kennedy. Civil rights issues, an unpopular war in Vietnam and voter fatigue with 20 long years of Republican dominance allow Eugene McCarthy to win decisively against Vice President Cabot Lodge jr.

President McCarthy pursues long-delayed and radical civil rights legislation, withdraws from Vietnam and pursues arms-control treaties with the Soviet Union.

These reforms make McCarthy unpopular with the non-liberal constituents of the Democratic Party and he is defeated in the 1972 Democratic Primaries by Senator Ronald Reagan (D-CA) who defeats Barry Goldwater in the 1972 general election.

McCarthy goes on to champion the cause of peace and nuclear disarnament worldwide becoming a progressive icon and dies in 2000 with the final culmination of his ambitious civil rights agenda - the election of America's first black president - former General Colin Powell (R).
 
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gridlocked

Banned
While I have no doubt that the South can be kept in the Democratic column if Democrats give enough of a damn to campaign in the South in it post-Civil Rights (the seventies saw the election of moderate, pro-civil rights Democrats to Congress in most of the South), I doubt that the black vote will be competitive unless the Republicans are responsible for pushing through Civil Rights legislation. The Party of Roosevelt and Jackson became the home of African-American voters in the thirties largely because of the patrician attitude of the Republicans, which threw Civil Rights out in order to support the politics of plutocracy.

Building on that, if the Democrats remain more socially conservative than not, they should still get most of the African-American vote. African-Americans and Latinos are the most socially conservative elements of the Democratic Party, after all.


You have some good points, however remember as late the 1960 Presidential election 40% of the African-American vote went to Richard Nixon. Plutocrats did not support Jim Crow, often even if the South since Jim Crow was a pain in the butt if you owned a factory or a railroad. Remember many Republicans including George HW Bush (Texas) were pro-civil rights -- especially if you define civil rights as the elimination of government sanctioned discrimination (like a libertarian or a businessman would) instead of such things as ethnic spoils or affirmative action then the Republican record is very decent even OTL. (Of course, if you define Civil Rights as who has done more and is on the look out for black people in OTL the Democrats win).

If the Democrats were the party of the southern white establishment in the 70s and 80s as per Dixie Progressive, even if they were economically liberal, I do not think they would have universal black support.
 
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The problem is that America in foundation is a socially well-off for two centuries, feudalism or class system is not being instituted in America, and its low population density makes America never being grounded with left wing ideas such as social liberalism. Although America is a relatively economic liberal. America is still a socially conservative because as I said above, America's foundation is based on opportunity to succeed economically done by yourself (individualism) and the social structure is more equal than in Europe that is why liberalism is not taking off in America tremendously compared to Europe, Canada and Australia.

To have more liberal America, there are many options:

Constitution abolishes the slavery.
The South secedes permanently instead of rejoining the Union.
Theodore Roosevelt is taking the GOP nomination in 1912.
Supreme Court never rollbacks some of the New Deal initiatives.
Democrats never rushes on Civil Rights platform during the 1948 convention, thus preventing the early cracks of the New Deal coalition.
Thomas Dewey wins the presidency in 1948.
Eisenhower proposes to the Congress to make Civil Rights Bill.
Nixon wins in 1960.
Reagan remains a liberal Democrat.
John Kennedy survives assassination.
Lyndon Johnson never escalates the Vietnam War.
Robert Kennedy survives assassination.
Richard Nixon erases the Watergate tape before the Watergate issue breakouts to media, thus finishes his second term.
 
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The problem is that America in foundation is a socially well-off for two centuries, feudalism or class system is not being instituted in America, and its low population density makes America never being grounded with left wing ideas such as social liberalism. Although America is a relatively economic liberal. America is still a socially conservative because as I said above, America's foundation is based on opportunity to succeed economically done by yourself (individualism) and the social structure is more equal than in Europe that is why liberalism is not taking off in America tremendously compared to Europe.

Uh, what? The 19th Century and the first half of the 20th Century seem to point otherwise. By the coming of the New Deal, a very rigid class structure existed in the United States, 'American Dream' propaganda notwithstanding. Even today, in the post-New Deal era there's less social mobility in the United States than in most of mainland Europe.

Also, I think there's a problem here with definitions. American Liberalism is social democratic in nature.
 

Technocrat

Banned
American liberalism is actually populistic in nature, being the brainchild of Locke as interpreted via Jefferson one one side (surviving to the Populist Democrats) and of evangelical Lutherans on the other (the Progressive Republicans).

The whole Classical Liberals studying the Whig Smith (Malthus, Hume, and so on) and the Utilitarian/New Liberals forming later was a British/European thing IIRC. In the US, you basically just have all of the Founding Fathers being vaguely associated with Locke and Burke and that being the seedlings of most of the longest standing divides.

American Liberalism is just Jefferson and Jackson Democracy with the federalism and independent courts from the 19th century conservative republicans borrowed heavily (ironically not from the Prog Movement reps, who were for democratizing the courts completely).

That is, American Liberalism is not socialist in nature but takes its conclusions from Locke rather than Smith, in terms of Whig philosophers; and was developed as political platforms here in the U.S. while classical liberalism was developed by thinkers like Hume and Malthus in the UK/Europe.

That's my interpretation anyway.

There was never some formal academic split between negative and positive liberties men here in the U.S., not early on, it was essentially different conclusions drawn from Two Treatises on Government and so on, and from Common Sense, and from the Articles of Confederation, and then the Constitution.

But yeah, the liberalism of FDR is, IMHO, Jeffersonian/Jacksonian Democracy just applied to the federal level - the Civil War having tarred radical state autonomy with a reactionary brush and the Populist Dems being willing to play the federalist northern Republican conservatives' game by wanting to use federal power to nationalize the railroads.

Agrarian populism was in ideology, though not until FDR in fact, allied with poor urban people - as supporting the unions was, as Jefferson and Jackson found IIRC, a great way to bedevil the industrialists and financiers they despised.
 
Do foreign PoD's count? B/c I've found Mao failing in China would likely give US liberalism a huge boost in an ATL post-WWII.

If not, it depends -- I'd say General Liberalism does pretty well in my ongoing TL*, while going much later preventing the Reagan Revolution does wonders (and that can happen as late as 1976). In b/w, there are the classics -- TR winning 1912, various 1960's TLs (survival of JFK, MLK, RFK, what have you) -- and plenty of others...

*mostly in what remains unwritten ; )
 
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