Plus 130 Mark II (Facist America) "It's like 1812, but in 1940"

Britain =/= British Empire.:rolleyes:
US GDP in 38: $673.84B in 1990 dollars
British Empire GDP in 38: $918.7B in 1990 dollars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires#GDP_size
http://www.measuringworth.com/usgdp/
http://www.halfhill.com/inflation.html
This is why it's really important to read what people have actually said before replying.:p
I did read and spent 15 minutes looking for something that said British Empire that wasn't wikipedia, then I figured what the hell use what you got

Your source contradicts previous discussions on the site that say the USA passed the Empire between 1890 and 1913, I would ask around this site just to be sure, they may have been wrong and I probably was wrong

I will admit that may be the case, of course that does not tell the whole story and I got 740.647 Billion using the calculators you posted, and I don't trust a Wikipedia article that Wikipedia says they do not trust themselves, but I will accept your data

Still GDP does not necessarily mean GDP that can be used, much of the Empire cost money to keep, and the rest of the Empire cannot be mobilized as much as the British Isles, both in terms of population and economy

Of course GDP does not itself tell the whole story, of war-making potential AH.com generally accepts this list for 1937 as accurate, GDP can come from a lot of things, many of which are not relevant in a war
 
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Portugal: fascist (under Salazar) but wary about Franco, had renewed its old alliance with England/Britain before the war in Canada began?
Hmm. Possibly... One thing about rewriting WWII is that you begin to appreciate just how many countries were involved... Probably declared neutrality, like OTL spain, but maybe secretly helping one side or the other.

RamscoopRaider said:
I did read and spent 15 minutes looking for something that said British Empire that wasn't wikipedia, then I figured what the hell use what you got
Yeah. Kinda run into that problem too. But in either case, this is not OTL American Empire, nor the OTL British Empire. ;)
 
NB: First time trying to plot a fleet engagement. I'm also not that knowledgable about Chester Nimitz. For those wondering why he didn't use the Lexington first, second, and third, Neither Toronto nor Pearl Habour has happened yet. Lots of people before that still believed in the invincibility of the battleship. This version of Nimitz is one of them.

1940/1941 Major Fronts:

Battle of the Atlantic

British Atlantic Strike Fleet:
2x King George V Battleships (King George V, Prince of Wales)
4x Admiral class Battle-cruisers (Hood, Anson, Howe, Rodney)
2x Glorious class Aircraft carriers (Glorious, Furious)
8x J-class destroyers

The British Strike Fleet was out gunned and out armoured, and left most of their battleships with the Home Fleet and the squadron guarding Gibraltar (and sitting on top of Spain). This decision was partially tactical, to lull the Americans into a false sense of comfort, and partly political, in case the gamble failed. The BSF had two things going for it however. Speed and Radar. All ships could match a speed of 30 knots, save for the two battleships that were 2 knots slower. And all the ships could ‘see in the dark’ thanks to their Type 284 ‘blind fire’ radar systems.

The last three Admiral class battlecruisers were built in the 30s as the best warship blueprints the shipyards coudl start on right away.

# # #

USN Atlantic Fleet
BATDIV 1A:
3x South Dakota Class (BB-49 South Dakota, BB-50 Indiana, BB-51 Montana)
2x Colorado class (BB-45 Colorado, BB-47 Washington)
Atlantic Patrol Fleet:
Two cruisers, 15 destroyers, One aircraft carrier (CV-2 Lexington)

American military planners knew they potential faced a naval war on two fronts, surrounded as it was by the British Home Fleet to the East and the British Asian Fleet and Japan to the East. Sensibly they chose to concentrate on the Eastern threat, correctly believing that for all its talk of equality, London will keep its most potent assets close to home. They don’t think anyone capable of making a surprise attack across the width of the Pacific, and believe they will have more than enough time to shift their assets around if it happens. Battleship Division 1A contains four of the most powerful battleship class in the world. They have the thickest armour, the biggest guns, and the best optics American industry can produce. They are guided by spotter planes from two carriers, so on the fast rolling ocean of the Atlantic, there will be no surprise encounters.

British speed is a concern for the USN, but having studied Jutland they place an emphasis on armour and durability. They are currently working on a new generation of battleships that are fast and heavily armed and armoured. Proposals were made to convert some older battleships into 4 or six gun battle cruisers (by capping the B turret) as an interim solution, but were rejected. On the other hand, Britain has been threatening the most dire consequences if America doesn’t pull out of Canada, for six months. If the British want to come out, dance around without engagement, and then go home again, then the USN will happily laugh at them. But no one thinks that’s going to happen.

The South Dakota warships are built as part of Jobs programmes, to employ America and make her strong again.

# # #

Spotter planes from the two fleets start to engage each other in Early March 1940, and both fleets immediately turn towards each other. To the Admiral Nimitz’s great annoyance, the British alter course at the last minute and use their superior speed to evade the range of the battleship guns. Both keep their aircraft carriers out of immediate range.

A series of high speed faints takes place over the next three hours before Nimitz refuses to rise to the bait again. He slows his ships to ten knots, and lets the British Shadow him, and repeats what the entire Navy has been telling itself for months. “They’ll come when they’re ready. And then we’ll kill them.” He knows the British almost certainly have some kind of trap for him. And he’s quite happy to sail his South Dakotas straight into it. “We’ll kill them when they’re ready.” Both destroyer groups engage each other intermittently until a few hours before nightfall.

It’s a moonless night and Admiral Holland waits until after dark before taking his ships over the horizon. Battlecruiser captains turn off their radar and manoeuvre around the Americans for another hour before converging on Nimitz location by dead reckoning at high speed. At fifteen miles they turn their radars on and slow to manoeuvring speed as the Americans begin to open fire.

Powerful 150kW 50cm radar lobes swept out and pinned the location of the American ships on the plotting board, while the Americans were still guestimating ranges using their optical systems. The British ships fired again, and again and again, and kept firing, as their first shells began to impact. In the first five minutes of the battle, Nimitz lost all five of his destroyers and one of the cruisers.

The firing is scattershot amongst the ships of 1A at first, and doesn’t penetrate the armoured turrets or citadels, but then coloured shells begin to burst, and every RN ship concentrates its fire on the highlighted USN ship. Both sides would later calculate that over the 6 hour engagement, the British were achieved a hit rate of 60%, while the Americans were firing practically blind and landed a bare dozen two hits thought the first half of the battle.

Things go better for the Americans after they lose the Indiana, which explodes into a fiery beacon and finally allows them to see what they are shooting at. They are surprised at how close the British actually are, and start shooting back with their main guns immediately. The British promptly disengage and rapidly evade even the mighty US Mark 6’s 23 mile range. But not before HMS Anson’s rear turret explodes.

In the aftermath Nimitz examines his fleet. Collectively the five battleships have lost three turrets, and all have taken heavy damage both to their citadel-armour and to everything open-armour areas. Unfortunately battleships need what’s located in the unamoured areas, or it wouldn’t be there. His ships can still fight, manoeuvre, and float, but they can’t do much else. Two of the ships are even having trouble doing the latter, and one of them may be sinking faster than it can be saved. Three ships have also completely lost their primary optics. They can aim with the backups, but not very well. One (the sinking one thankfully) has rudder damage. And of course, all five destroyers and two cruisers are now on the bottom of the Atlantic.

In one single engagement his battleships have been rather effectively mission killed, and they only got one enemy ship in exchange. Chester Nimitz was not a happy man. Perhaps the Lexington would have better luck in the morning...
 
Uh building Admirals in the late 30's is probably a no go, the 15" guns and turrets are almost certainly out of production (if they were still in production the KGVs would use them) and they have enough spares for one ship (this was the Vanguard), so it would be more logical for a new class, would cost the same and require the same work

But its your TL and Interwar British procurement was never the most intelligent
 
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Interesting naval clash, the carriers seemed to play a pretty insignificant role. I'm curious to see if Nimitz takes the opportunity to pursue with the Lexington, though with the outcome of the first battle noone could blame him for playing cautious.
 
I think Nimitz will play it safe, Bull would attack, but Nimitz is more cautious.

Also what could one carrier do against a fleet?
 
The Spanish Civil War begins. America intervenes on the Fascist side in exchange for a pledge of foreign airbases on mainland Spain after the war. Two Florida class Battleships (BB-30 and BB-31) are sent to provide coastal support, and sold to the Spanish Republic afterwards.
Intervenes on Fascist side, but sells to Republic...?


In any case, WWII APCs may not the best idea, due to poor ventilation.


This is an interesting timeline nonetheless.

Wonder what will happen to the vulnerable Panama locks.
 
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