Please The MSM: Hillary v. Rudy, 2008

With a POD of January 1, 2007, have Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giuliani be their respective parties' 2008 presidential nominees. Only domestic PODs may be used, and no incapacitation of other candidates is allowed.
 
Would require massive reworking/rebuilding of two badly designed campaigns (atrocious in Rudy's case) with the best minds going to their staffs for the primaries.:)
 

JoeMulk

Banned
Have Hillary renounce her stand on the Iraq War more forcefully and propose a more progressive health care plan. Have McCain make a few more gaffes then usual and Rudy court the social cons more actively. Of course all of these things happening in tandum is ASB and even some of them happening on there own.
 
A more progressive health plan? UHC is ASB in the US and she had an individual mandate in hers, which Obama argued was unconstitutional at the time. On Iraq: she was running as a hawk, but maybe arguing much more forcefully for Afghanistan might help.
 
Well have Obama not run, with whatever small POD needed, and youve got a Hillary Democratic win. Giuliani would need a much more precise campaign, with less focused on so little. Picking up the far right could place him 2nd in Iowa, and maybe a good showing in New Hampshire could lead him to an upset in South Carolina.Giuliani shows well through out the campaign, but finishes mainly in 2nd to McCain and Romney. McCain goes into the RNC as the presumptive nominee but suffers some kind of health problem and is forced to drop out, throwing his endorsement and delegates to Giuliani who, along with his delegates from the runner up finishes, is able to take the nomination. He would end up losing to Hillary any way....
 

JoeMulk

Banned
If Obama didn't run then Edwards probably would win the nomination since he would be the one taking the anti-establishment/anti-clintonian fervor. Hopefully he would have been able to keep rielle hunter hushed up during the campaign, if possible then he could have defeated Giuliani in a landslide since he could have done well in the south with evangelicals staying home.
 
Well have Obama not run, with whatever small POD needed, and youve got a Hillary Democratic win. Giuliani would need a much more precise campaign, with less focused on so little. Picking up the far right could place him 2nd in Iowa, and maybe a good showing in New Hampshire could lead him to an upset in South Carolina.Giuliani shows well through out the campaign, but finishes mainly in 2nd to McCain and Romney. McCain goes into the RNC as the presumptive nominee but suffers some kind of health problem and is forced to drop out, throwing his endorsement and delegates to Giuliani who, along with his delegates from the runner up finishes, is able to take the nomination. He would end up losing to Hillary any way....

While a tougher Senate race would make things easier, I'm not sure you absolutely need to avoid the Jack Ryan/Keyes mess. All you have to do is have someone else give the convention speech. No Convention Speech, no Obama Presidency, or at least he wouldn't be elected in 2008.

As I think everyone here is aware, getting Giuliani the nomination is a far more difficult proposition. From the little I know his campaign was horrible. A possible point of divergence there would be McCain being forced to withdraw as was speculated in the early part of the campaign. But that would probably lead to a Romney nomination. If McCain leaves the race, and Fred Thompson doesn't enter it, and Giuliani runs a much better campaign, and Romney screws up epically somehow, then Giuliani stands a slight chance. But that's a kind of perfect storm scenario that isn't very likely.
 
Ryan's dropping out was very last minute IIRC. Keyes basically was just a fill-in.
And it took the Republicans some time to find a stand in as I remember things. The election quickly became a obvious Obama victory once he was running unopposed for a few weeks, if Jack Ryan's divorce papers hadn't decided that already. I thought Obama was obviously going to win after Jack Ryan stepped out, but I also thought that the Republicans would pick an Alf Landon. You know, an "We're obviously going to lose so we are going to nominate an unassuming candidate who won't say much in order to keep up appearances"-type. I thought after Jack Ryan, the last thing the Illinois GOP would want would be to humiliate itself further. Needless to say, I was wrong.
 
Perhaps if Rudy offered the voters more of a platform.

I may be wrong, but it seemed to me his whole basis for running was that he was mayor of NYC during 9/11. OTL. I never heard any real ideas or solutions.

If he had a "meatier" campaign platform, perhaps he'd of went over better.
 
Obama decides to serve out his term in the Senate instead of seeking the White House in 2008. Thus John Edwards becomes the de facto progressive candidate in the race, who invariably loses later on down the road.

John McCain decides against running as well (citing age, most likely). Romney doesn't flip-flop on social issues, alienating him from most of the Republican base, and Mike Huckabee never really gets off of the ground. Giuliani manages to pick up the slack from a divided GOP field.
 
This is an interesting idea, but gets more fun if Bloomberg runs too, and gains more than ten percent of the national popular vote. Imagine the repeated recounts all but certain to occur in the State of New York if that happens.
 

JoeMulk

Banned
As a New York resident I would have to vote for Hillary in this scenario and then promptly throw up....either that or drink heavily for a month before going to the polls:p
 

pnyckqx

Banned
With a POD of January 1, 2007, have Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giuliani be their respective parties' 2008 presidential nominees. Only domestic PODs may be used, and no incapacitation of other candidates is allowed.
Simple on the Republican side. Have Dick Cheney resign for reasons of health, and Rudy replaces him. Rudy comes into the primary season as an incumbant.

Kind of skirting the rules a bit, but Cheney did state that he would not run, so he's not a candidate.

As far as Hilary goes, she needs to take Obama seriously from the outset instead of when it was too late to check his momentum.
 
Simple on the Republican side. Have Dick Cheney resign for reasons of health, and Rudy replaces him. Rudy comes into the primary season as an incumbant.

Kind of skirting the rules a bit, but Cheney did state that he would not run, so he's not a candidate.

As far as Hilary goes, she needs to take Obama seriously from the outset instead of when it was too late to check his momentum.

I think she was soft on Obama due to the race issue too, and that won't change here.
 
Hillary is easier to me. Have no Edwards in Iowa, and I would predict a victory for her in Iowa. Win in Iowa, win in New Hampshire, Obama staves off defeat in South Carolina, and then loses in a manner slightly similar to McCain v Romney in 2008. Hillary picks Obama as her running mate.

McCain's campaign was on a shoestring in mid-to-late 2007. He gives up hope and drops out. Giuliani then decides to do some semi-serious campaigning in New Hampshire. Romney wins in Iowa, Giuliani comes a very close second to Romney in New Hampshire, Huckabee or someone similar wins in South Carolina, Giuliani's Florida strategy works to give him his first victory, and a long, drawn-out fight with Giulaini winning blue state primaries and a handful of swing-state primaries gives him the nomination.

My best guess, anyway.
 
Hillary is easier to me. Have no Edwards in Iowa, and I would predict a victory for her in Iowa. Win in Iowa, win in New Hampshire, Obama staves off defeat in South Carolina, and then loses in a manner slightly similar to McCain v Romney in 2008. Hillary picks Obama as her running mate.

McCain's campaign was on a shoestring in mid-to-late 2007. He gives up hope and drops out. Giuliani then decides to do some semi-serious campaigning in New Hampshire. Romney wins in Iowa, Giuliani comes a very close second to Romney in New Hampshire, Huckabee or someone similar wins in South Carolina, Giuliani's Florida strategy works to give him his first victory, and a long, drawn-out fight with Giulaini winning blue state primaries and a handful of swing-state primaries gives him the nomination.

My best guess, anyway.

Agreed with your scenario, except she said Bayh, Strickland or Biden would be her VP choices. Thread winner right there- it was the Giuliani strategy I was looking for.
 
Hillary is easier to me. Have no Edwards in Iowa, and I would predict a victory for her in Iowa. Win in Iowa, win in New Hampshire, Obama staves off defeat in South Carolina, and then loses in a manner slightly similar to McCain v Romney in 2008. Hillary picks Obama as her running mate.

McCain's campaign was on a shoestring in mid-to-late 2007. He gives up hope and drops out. Giuliani then decides to do some semi-serious campaigning in New Hampshire. Romney wins in Iowa, Giuliani comes a very close second to Romney in New Hampshire, Huckabee or someone similar wins in South Carolina, Giuliani's Florida strategy works to give him his first victory, and a long, drawn-out fight with Giulaini winning blue state primaries and a handful of swing-state primaries gives him the nomination.

My best guess, anyway.

Could Romney have won the Iowa caucus in our timeline? I suspect that Huckabee still has the surprise advantage there.
 
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