Player Two Start: An SNES-CD Timeline

[Nivek]

Thanks Pyro, your apport to the timeline have been pretty amazign and allow cover those plot point(as Comic book were rarer here in latam was diffcult me to pinpoint some stuff) and give some plot hooks to the future.

 

[Kalvan]

Well, Pyro, while you haven't quite made this timeline one I'd as much like to live in as Dirty Laundry, That Wacky Redhead, or A Different Disney Renaissance, You've made me want to make several extended trips there, just to hang out in comics shops.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I do like gun toting characters in superhero continuities, and I like anti-heroes too. But they are best enjoyed in their own titles, or where the team-ups make sense. Either do them right, or don't do them at all. However, you've managed to perfectly resolve all the most glaring continuity problems with Wonder Girl and the Hawk Family. (Yes, I'm a big fan of Golden Age Carter Hall, but I'll accept his honorable retirement.)

Waid was my favorite Fantastic Four writer, so he should do a good job for Justice League, though I'll miss specific Morrison storylines on that book. As for the new Titans book, if this butterflies away Titans/Young Justice: Graduation Day and the subsequent Character Derailments of Impulse, Cassie Sandsmark, and Supey, I'm all for it.

Have these events butterflied away Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, and New 52? (I Hope So) Will these events butterfly away the Geoff Johns run on Green Lantern and the Spectrum War saga in any form? (I hope not, even if Hal stays dead, there's just too much concentrated awesome in those ideas.)

All DC needs to be perfect in my eyes is to keep Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, and Suiicide Squad within the mainstream DC continuity.

 

[Miss Teri]

Ask and ye shall receive...

--

1995 would be a seminal year for DC Comics, particularly because it was the tenth anniversary of the multiverse shattering Crisis on Infinite Earths. Though DC’s intent for the maxi-series was to streamline the Pre-Crisis multiverse into a single universe to make more accessible for new readers, it had the opposite effect. According to writer Marv Wolfman, none of the characters in the new DC universe (save for a few survivors from the multiverse like Harbinger, Lady Quark, and Pariah) were supposed to remember the Crisis or the existence of the multiverse, which caused the first of many continuity snarls. Janette Khan’s edict that Superman be the sole survivor of Krypton caused the first major snarl. Kara Zor-El’s sacrifice to save Superman in Crisis on Infinite Earths played a critical role in the story as did Barry Allen’s. However, if DC’s heroes remembered Barry’s sacrifice, then who saved Superman in Crisis on Infinite Earths #7?

Similarly, John Byrne’s Man of Steel established that Superman began his career as an adult and never was Superboy in the new universe. That created a snarl for the Legion of Super-Heroes because Superboy and Supergirl were charter members of the team. Additionally, Superboy sent Mon-El to the Phantom Zone in the previous continuity and created another paradox. Legion writer Paul Levitz attempted to rectify it by creating a Pre-Crisis Superboy from a pocket universe. Then in 19898 Superman editor Mark Carlin ordered the new Legion creative tem to sever any ties to the Man of Steel, which necessitated the a soft reboot where Mo-El took Superboy’s place as Valor that created more snarls.

Wonder Woman and Hawkman’s revised origins also created paradoxes that required multiple retcons to correct. In the case of the former, the retcons did not affect Wonder Woman herself as it did Donna Troy AKA Wonder Girl. The character herself was the product of a misunderstanding; “Wonder Girl” was originally Wonder Woman as an adolescent but Bob Haney, the creator of the Teen Titans, thought she was a separate character and thus included her in Teen Titans #1. She became an orphan rescued by Wonder Woman—however, George Perez’s reboot of Wonder Woman placed her debut in the contemporary DC universe, well after the debut of Wonder Girl and the Justice League (though DC substituted her with Black Canary as a JLA founding member.)

As for Hawkman, Tim Truman planned for Hawkworld to be a retelling of Katar Hol incarnation of the character, which would lead into 1961’s Brave and the Bold #34. However, John Ostrander’s follow up Hawkworld established that Katar Hol, like Wonder Woman, debuted in the contemporary DC universe. However, Katar Hol was a longtime member of the Justice League of America and appeared in Action Comics and Justice League International Post-Crisis, which created even more complications. Despite attempts at substitution (the Golden Age Hawkman, Carter Hall taking his place on the JLA and a Thanagarian spy assuming the role in Invasion), it was clear that DC’s continuity became too complicated for new readers hence the need to iron out the kinks.

DC intended to release Crisis in Time: Zero Hour in July 1994 but according to Zero Hour writer, Dan Jurgens, Janette Khan believed that February 1995 would be more appropriate for it to coincide with the original Crisis. What DC originally slated to be a five issue series expanded into eight parts released over two months. The delay also gave DC’s other talent more room to accommodate the event as well as provide creative input. The rehabilitation of former Green Lantern, Hal Jordan; Emerald Twilight was an extremely polarizing story arc because it reduced a longtime member of the Justice League into a murderer. Eventually, Mark Waid came up with the solution that Hal Jordan’s breakdown was part of the manipulations of longtime Legion foe, the Time Trapper who became the primary villain of Zero Hour.

The best way I can condense the plot is this: after Hal Jordan (now Parallax) absorbed the power of the Central Power Battery on Oa, the Time Trapper fed him visions of the original Crisis where the five remaining Earth merging into one. Convinced that if he restarted time, he would restore the multiverse and Coast City along with it. Time began to unravel, erasing the 30th century entirely, and temporal anomalies brought back previously deceased or incapacitated, like the second Doctor Mid-Nite (Beth Chapel) and Batgirl, and caused the various timelines to converge. Once the heroes discovered the source of the anomalies they confronted Parallax in the void that existed before the Big Bang. The Time Trapper revealed himself and then struck Jordan down to take control of time itself. Jordan, having come to his senses and repentant for his actions used the last of his power to destroy the Time Trapper and create a new Big Bang and a new timeline.

The event in itself was almost as controversial as Emerald Twilight. Like Armageddon 2001 before it, a leaked memo revealed that DC originally planned to kill off the Justice Society because Mike Carlin believed that, “no one wanted to read a book about old superheroes.” Fan outcry prompted a last-minute revision; instead of killing the Justice Society, they lost the plot contrivance that kept them young. Those deemed redundant, like the Golden Age Atom, Dr. Mid-Nite, and Hourman as well as Starman and Wildcat, went into permanent retirement while their successors took their mantles. There were still casualties other than Hal Jordan. The Golden Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl died in a particularly gruesome fashion, impaled from behind by Parallax when he revealed himself. Power Girl, a throwback to the pre-Crisis Earth-2, also died in a scene that mirrored the original Supergirl’s in the previous Crisis.

DC launched a special “zero” issue for each of their ongoing titles that “revised” the continuity discrepancies via modified origins. For example, Donna Troy’s post-Crisis origin remained intact, however, Wonder Woman debuted before her and was again a Justice League founder and thus took Donna on as an “apprentice” as well as Hippolyta declaring her an honorary Amazon. Similarly, Katar Hol’s Hawkworld origin was still in continuity but he arrived on Earth at the same time as his Silver Age compatriots. DC Comics also released DC Comics Presents #0, which contained the definitive timeline of the new DC Universe.

Crisis on Infinite Earths earned the largely undeserved reputation of helping usher in the “dark age” because the maxi-series was contemporaneous with Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns, which deconstructed the medium. Most comic book historians credit Zero Hour with the reconstruction of the genre. In the wake of the crossover, DC wanted the “iconic” versions of the Justice League and Teen Titans to return. As such Mark Waid, having proven himself on Flash, took on writing duties of Justice League (formerly Justice League America) , which restored the “Big Seven” plus longtime members like Green Arrow and Black Canary as well as a new Doctor Fate. Justice League also reinvigorated the career of George Perez, who stayed on the title for an unbroken four-year run. New Titans simply became the Titans written by Karl Kesel and drawn by Howard Porter, which involved Robin (Tim Drake), Superboy, Impulse, and a new Wonder Girl under the tutelage of Troia, Nightwing, and Arsenal.

However, DC completely rebooted the Legion of Super-Heroes overseen by Animal Man and Doom Patrol writer Grant Morrison and a young Bryan Hitch. In many ways, Morrison’s Legion was a loving pastiche of old pulp science fiction like Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, or even the UK’s own Dan Dare. Fan responded positively to the new direction and for a time it even outsold Justice League. In some ways, the success of Legion and Justice League paved the way for Morrison and Waid’s acclaimed reimagining on Action Comics and Superman at the end of the decade.

So did Zero Hour fix all of DC’s continuity problems? No, but they were far less pronounced post-ZH and DC’s policy was to ignore past mistakes and focus on the present and future. It also helped bring an end to gun-toting antihero trend that defined Image and, to a lesser extent, Marvel. For the first time in decades, DC outsold Marvel on a consistent basis where Justice League and Legion regular surpassed X-Men (albeit by a narrow margin.) With its non-Spider-Man and X-Men titles in disarray, DC’s revamp would force Marvel to reexamine its strategy. However, the battles in the boardroom and Marvel’s bankruptcy would complicate matters.

But that is another story for another day.

-from the blog "The Musing Platypus" by B. Ronning, January 9, 2014

So, there is a version of Infinite Crisis ten years earlier. Also on the plus side, the Dark Age of Comics may thankfully be shorter than OTL, and the late 90's would have good comics (well, besides Sandman)

Good update. I'm not sure if my comics update coming up will be as good.

 

[Pyro]

Waid was my favorite Fantastic Four writer, so he should do a good job for Justice League, though I'll miss specific Morrison storylines on that book. As for the new Titans book, if this butterflies away Titans/Young Justice: Graduation Day and the subsequent Character Derailments of Impulse, Cassie Sandsmark, and Supey, I'm all for it.

Yeah, Graduation Day is most likely not going to happen OTL. Cassie Sandsmark's existence is somewhat uncertain. She first appeared during Byrne's run on Wonder Woman so there may be butterflies. However, since I am a fan of the Pre-New 52 version of her, there is a high probability (in my mind) that John Byrne's run will be similar to OTL and Cassie will join the TTL Titans in 1996.

As for Morrison, I thought he would be a good fit for the Legion of Super-Heroes reboot where he would enjoy complete creative freedom. He might find his way to Justice League later, though. Possibly as Waid's successor?

Have these events butterflied away Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, and New 52? (I Hope So)

Yes, and Hypertime will probably stick around to explain any other continuity discrepancies.

Will these events butterfly away the Geoff Johns run on Green Lantern and the Spectrum War saga in any form? (I hope not, even if Hal stays dead, there's just too much concentrated awesome in those ideas.)

Well, a modified version of it might appear. One possible scenario is that DC assigns Geoff Johns to Green Lantern instead of Flash in the early 00s. Editorial mandate may keep Hal Jordan dead, but TTL version of Rebirth will probably geared towards the restoration of the Green Lantern Corps (including the reinstatement of John Stewart and Guy Gardner) and the establishment of a rival corps as well as the spectrum.

All DC needs to be perfect in my eyes is to keep Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, and Suiicide Squad within the mainstream DC continuity.

That can be doable.

 

[VariantAberrant]

All DC needs to be perfect in my eyes is to keep Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, and Suiicide Squad within the mainstream DC continuity.

That can be doable.

I hope so. There's always room for timelines that keep a connection between the DC Universe and its Vertigo suburbs. (Mike Maddox, of the late lamented Amazing Heroes, was the one to identify them as such. He remarked that Buddy Baker's family, as written by Grant Morrison on Animal Man, didn't really belong in the DCU, "but Buddy's a superhero, so they live in the suburbs, and Buddy commutes." Maddox mentioned this to Morrison in an AH interview, and Morrison instantly agreed with the terminology.)

 

[HonestAbe1809]

Can we please have a version of Kara Zor-El that doesn't end her life in a heroic sacrifice? Or has her life violently at all?

 

[Pyro]

The Matrix version of Supergirl still exists ITTL. However, given that DC seems to be going back to the iconic versions of their characters (possibly inspired by Justice League: Battle for Earth?), they might retire Matrix in favor of a variant of Kara In-Ze from the Animated Universe brought over to the comics ala Harley Quinn.

In short, Kara In-Ze hails from Krypton's sister planet, Argos. Superman makes a second trip to the Rao system with the Silver Age Hawks where they find Argos adrift and discover her stasis chamber. The rest, as they say, is history.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

Speaking of Harley, anything special in stock for her? Personally I think she's my favorite Batman villain.

 

[Unknown]

When's the next update?

 

[Nivek]

When's the next update?

Pacience Grasshopper,

 

[theg*ddam*hoi2fan]

Something's occurred to me: since the POD is 1991, and the butterflies have been flapping busily away with regard to other TV franchises...what's the deal with Star Trek? As OTL, or have DS9 and Voyager fallen prey to the Butterfly of Doom? DS9 I'd be sad to lose, Voyager...less so...

 

[Nivek]

Something's occurred to me: since the POD is 1991, and the butterflies have been flapping busily away with regard to other TV franchises...what's the deal with Star Trek? As OTL, or have DS9 and Voyager fallen prey to the Butterfly of Doom? DS9 I'd be sad to lose, Voyager...less so...

DS9 was pararel to TNG and would be a little difficult to change... Voyager... know little but would be killed because BoD or ended much differentely. Star Trek Expert, your call here.

 

[Roger Redux]

I've always been more of a Sega fan (the Genesis was my first console) but I'm really enjoying this! Actually I really want to play a couple of those SNES CD exclusives along with the Mega Charged version of TTL's Sonic 3. I'm kinda surprised that Sega hasn't been doing anything more with Phantasy Star, what with the whole JRPG craze.

Could I borrow some of your SNES CD games for a timeline that I'm in the process of writing? My initial drafts were (quite frankly) Sega-wank and if I could use a little of this to help balance the Nintendo side out a bit, I would appreciate it. (And naturally I'd credit the game's origin here.)

 

[RySenkari]

I've always been more of a Sega fan (the Genesis was my first console) but I'm really enjoying this! Actually I really want to play a couple of those SNES CD exclusives along with the Mega Charged version of TTL's Sonic 3. I'm kinda surprised that Sega hasn't been doing anything more with Phantasy Star, what with the whole JRPG craze.

Could I borrow some of your SNES CD games for a timeline that I'm in the process of writing? My initial drafts were (quite frankly) Sega-wank and if I could use a little of this to help balance the Nintendo side out a bit, I would appreciate it. (And naturally I'd credit the game's origin here.)

Well, Phantasy Star IV is scheduled for a late 1995 release, other than that I think instead of imitating Nintendo too much on that front, Sega's just tried to stick with what they know. In addition, they did try to release Lunar for the Mega Charger and that backfired hideously on them, so that's spooked Sega off from any more huge RPG releases.

And sure, you can go ahead and use some of our SNES-CD games, can't wait to see what you do with them in your TL.

 

[AN9]

I've always been a Nintendo fan, right now I'm regretting that I just found out about this TL a few days ago.

Keep it up, I'm looking forward to Sega's demise in the future.

 

[RySenkari]

We're looking at having the big March update sometime this week, Monday at the earliest.

 

[Nivek]

I've always been more of a Sega fan (the Genesis was my first console) but I'm really enjoying this! Actually I really want to play a couple of those SNES CD exclusives along with the Mega Charged version of TTL's Sonic 3. I'm kinda surprised that Sega hasn't been doing anything more with Phantasy Star, what with the whole JRPG craze.

Could I borrow some of your SNES CD games for a timeline that I'm in the process of writing? My initial drafts were (quite frankly) Sega-wank and if I could use a little of this to help balance the Nintendo side out a bit, I would appreciate it. (And naturally I'd credit the game's origin here.)

Nice seeing opinion of our fans and thanks you like our version of Sonic 3. About not taking advantage.... if you see a lot of those RPG title are third party(with the occational first party one) something sega did not have well in otl(were more action and sport games) and PS, remember half of PS team become Sonic Team and the other do IV, meaning they full the rest of gen. But not worry, we've plan for Phantasy Star and Rieko Kodama.

Umm that timeline is interesting, can you PM us details about it, that will allow our approval about that, would be interesting to read(and have a semi spinoff of our work,xd)

I've always been a Nintendo fan, right now I'm regretting that I just found out about this TL a few days ago.

Keep it up, I'm looking forward to Sega's demise in the future.

We've big plans for Sega and if you see, without OTL Saturn Mistake, that make sega in far better position by default, and this is a long TL, The fate of a lot of people still is butterfly prone.

 

[AN9]

We've big plans for Sega and if you see, without OTL Saturn Mistake, that make sega in far better position by default, and this is a long TL, The fate of a lot of people still is butterfly prone.

Well, as long as Nintendo is still at the top then I can stomach them surviving for a little while.

I was ambivalent to Sega until that Saturn fuck-up. Still can't get over it.

 

[Roger Redux]

I was ambivalent to Sega until that Saturn fuck-up. Still can't get over it.

Actually it was the 32X that really killed them; if they hadn't split their attention and resources with that, they could've focused on ironing out the Saturn's issues and not had to rush it out before their third-party developers even knew it was "finished".

 

[Nivek]

Actually it was the 32X that really killed them; if they hadn't split their attention and resources with that, they could've focused on ironing out the Saturn's issues and not had to rush it out before their third-party developers even knew it was "finished".

Well, as long as Nintendo is still at the top then I can stomach them surviving for a little while.

I was ambivalent to Sega until that Saturn fuck-up. Still can't get over it.

Both Got it right, as much as the dirty water and cuthroat tactics, Sega did was a good part of the industry, they just killed themselves with those horrible mistakes.

Here sega goes high but got catched and now they were a new approeach, thing will be interesting in future that is something i'll tell to all.

Roger Redux wanting to knew about your idea