Plausible Survival of the airship

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Another thing wouldn't San Fransisco be a more likely west coast airship hub than Los Angeles? While LA was the larger city by then San Fransisco was the financial hub of the Western US and had the naval base at Alameda. LA did have Hollywood, but it wasn't the city it is today. Even San Diego would be more likely (massive naval bases). While I can see a dedicated civil air harbour at New York civil airships travelling to the rest of the country would probally make due with naval facilities for awhile longer.
 
San Fran was the big Flying Boat port city OTL before the war, so I'd see it as Airship country. Though I could also see Pan Am fighting to keep them out - or Walt Disney doing a little old fashioned payola to get the zep port in a nice flat rural environ near a big city...like Orange County coincidentally close to Disneyland, for example. :D

As to segregated zeps...I'd assume the idea that a non-white would ever be able to afford such (or be important enough for such) would never cross any minds at that point. Ergo if it happens I could see them in a quandry and probably just trying to assign seating for the "unexpected visitor" away from the "proper guests". The best possibility for blacks on a zep is probably as stewards or musical entertainment anyway, I'm afraid.
 
The honest reason is that I couldn't think of anything else :D
I know that naming them after Hitler or the Party is out (at least it was OTL). And would it be out to reference the Kaisers?...

I know I'm a little late to chime in, even with the widespread use of zeppelins I think the Nazis would still be reluctant to allow names like Vaterland, Gross Deutschland, or Germania. Minister Goebbels would love using them for propoganda, but he's not going compound theembarrassment by having journalists talk about about the "destruction of the Fatherland" if one of them crashs. Why not continue the pattern of naming them after historical German rulers? Karl der Große (aka Charlemagne), Friedrich der Große (aka Frederick II of Prussia), and Maria Theresia (of Austria) are all good choices.Hitler & the Nazis were rather fond of King Frederick in OTL, and with the Anschluss they'd probally want to name at least one zeppelin after an Austrian ruler. Arminius is a very good choice (especially for the turned over to the Reich or military).

About Pan Am's aiships; which are the "luxury" versions and which are the "economy" ones? Maybe they'd put the latter on domestic routes (with one perhaps on luxury domestic ship) the former on the overseas routes. I don't know if you (or anyone's) going to do any graphics (like fake Pan Am ads), but one small detail to consider is that Pan Am isn't going to have to confine smokers to a special pressurized lounge like DZR. So just about every Pan Am ad is going to show something like a passenger smoking or candles on the dinner talbes. DZR might have larger ships with better facilities, but at least on Pan Am you can still smoke everwhere.
 
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I just found this (http://www.oldbeacon.com/beacon/airships/airship-travel.htm) page. Scroll down and there are pictures of the passenger quarters of both the R100 and the R101 (I didn't even realize that it was fully outfitted for passenger travel). There's also an English DZR brochure. Maybe American Airlines is a better candidate for flying American airships since apparently in OTL they already offered connecting flights with DZR.
 
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I know I'm a little late to chime in, even with the widespread use of zeppelins I think the Nazis would still be reluctant to allow names like Vaterland, Gross Deutschland, or Germania. Minister Goebbels would love using them for propoganda, but he's not going compound theembarrassment by having journalists talk about about the "destruction of the Fatherland" if one of them crashs. Why not continue the pattern of naming them after historical German rulers? Karl der Große (aka Charlemagne), Friedrich der Große (aka Frederick II of Prussia), and Maria Theresia (of Austria) are all good choices.Hitler & the Nazis were rather fond of King Frederick in OTL, and with the Anschluss they'd probally want to name at least one zeppelin after an Austrian ruler. Arminius is a very good choice (especially for the turned over to the Reich or military).

About Pan Am's aiships; which are the "luxury" versions and which are the "economy" ones? Maybe they'd put the latter on domestic routes (with one perhaps on luxury domestic ship) the former on the overseas routes. I don't know if you (or anyone's) going to do any graphics (like fake Pan Am ads), but one small detail to consider is that Pan Am isn't going to have to confine smokers to a special pressurized lounge like DZR. So just about every Pan Am ad is going to show something like a passenger smoking or candles on the dinner talbes. DZR might have larger ships with better facilities, but at least on Pan Am you can still smoke everwhere.

Good points on the naming conventions. IIRC they specifically avoided use of names like "Deutschland" and "Hitler" due to the poor propaganda if they crashed.

On smoking, if airships last they'll likely be using non-flammable helium, which eliminates fire concerns.
 
I just found this (http://www.oldbeacon.com/beacon/airships/airship-travel.htm) page. Scroll down and there are pictures of the passenger quarters of both the R100 and the R101 (I didn't even realize that it was fully outfitted for passenger travel). There's also an English DZR brochure. Maybe American Airlines is a better candidate for flying American airships since apparently in OTL they already offered connecting flights with DZR.

Interestingly enough, I came across the same site not too long ago. Very interesting stuff, and the pictures from the R100/101 are really cool.

I also found recently a diagram showing the set up of the interior of either the R100 or the R101. If I can find it again soon I'll post it. Was very interesting.
 
I'd really like to see you merge this TL with the "Zeppelin President" one. Butterfly away Nazi Germany and this gives you a lot of flexibility to really change the 1940-2000 period to the advantage of the rigid airship. Combine the changed political situation in Germany with with general technological advances you have suggested and the following ideas can be pursued with much fewer problems:

(1) Continued collaboration between the USA and Germany through the Goodyear-Zeppelin partnership leads to the accelerated development and "perfection" of the zeppelin airship as the most widely accepted mode of long-range air travel. As you have already proposed, development of commercial airships proceed at a more rapid pace, and no wartime haitus in the 1940's would certainly help. As was a distinct possibility in the 1930's, the USA passes legislation granting "flag carrier" status to the Goodyear-Zeppelin airlines for international travel, redirecting most US commercial airplane development away from long-range multi-engine lanplanes and floatplanes to DC-2 type craft serving domestic lines and making connections to airship docks. Extending this further into the geopolitical realm, the aviation collaboration between the USA and a rejuvenated and relatively democratic German Republic leads to the development of a "special relationship" between the US and Germany (this is not that far fetched, considering that US attitudes toward Weimar were always significantly more positive in the early postwar period than that of Britian and France). While not a formal alliance (this would be impossible due to US interwar isolationism), these changes set the stage for a radically different US posture if and when European crises develop over the inevitable German desires for border revisions regarding the Saar, Rhineland, Sudentenland, and polish corridor, as well as eventual German remilitarization (policies that would be supported by any German government). As in OTL, Weimar Germany also works secretely with the USSR to circumvent certain aspects of Versailles - and in this TL, this extends to exchanges of airship technology to the Russians, who seek to develop their own airship lines using German technology. British aviation, which is left out of the US-German collaboration, focuses on large flying boats for BOAC service within the commonwealth. So essentially by the mid 1940's, there are two largely unrelated international airline systems: (1) A German-American system of airship lines serving an overland route connecting Germany with the far east via the Soviet Union - perhaps also including Aeroflot as an operator; a transatlantic service between Germany and several airdocks in the eastern US; a joint US-German triangular service connecting Germany, the Eastern US, and several sities in Central and South America; and a US-operated line serving Hawaii, Manila, Japan, and the French and Durch Indies; (2) A British airline system based on Short flying boats and landplanes connecting Britain with Canada, India, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, perhaps Japan, China, and other colonies.

(2) Continued US development of naval airships, leading to the existence in 1941-42 of effective long range airship scouting and ASW fleets based in both the atlantic and pacific (you've already done a good job discussing this). It is reasonable to presume that a conflict between Japan and the US might still occur. It would be fun to speculate that a force of 10-15 or so long range ZRS or ZRCV type airships hased in Hawaii might make the Japanese reconsider a Pearl Harbor strike - or make it more difficult to acheive surprise. Either way, this would change the scope and duration of any potential Pacific War. In my TL, I speculated that, with fewer PoDs, a USN airship program might continue into the 1960's - and that was with WW2 as in OTL. In this TL, the same could occur.

Questions to consider:

(1) How might this affect the development of long-range strategic bombing? It is reasonable to assume that Britain and/or France would continue to develop such a force, but in this changed TL, the US Army might not.

(2) It would be nice to have airships merged with nuclear power - extending their survival potential into the 1970's, but a more peaceful 20th century might delay this technology a lot.

(3) A peaceful 20th century might also delay the development of jet engines. That is critical, because it is only with jet engines and the vast inmprovement in speed and ceiling they provided that really allowed airplanes to become more reliable than airships and provide high-speed long-range travel that made up for their lack of amenities.
 
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Good stuff, zoomar, though I might add (as before) that we could still see US flying boat development. It's already a principle and romantic way to escape to Latin America (with Pan Am in monopoly of course). Witness 1933's Flying Down to Rio (an early Astaire/Rodgers appearance; I just saw some of it this weekend) where the excitement of travel aboard a Sikorsky S-40 leading down to the glamor of Rio is still palpable today.

Juan Trippe is never going to idly sit back while Goodyear/Zep and BOAC cut into potential profits and I can see him pursuing large transoceanic flying boats as OTL. At the minimum there will be a large and very public court case. That's why I supposed in one of these threads an under-the-table understanding where Zeps get the luxury and vacation travel and FBs take the business and government travel.
 
So to combine the two TL's, which by the way I think is an excellent idea, there would essentially be two PoDs: the Shenandoah does not crash, and Eckener becomes President of Germany in 1932. I guess the former would be the PoD, and the latter would be a butterfly of the former?

Anyway...in this TL, I've got PanAm being the US carrier, with Goodyear just producing the airships for the states. Would that be the most likely outcome with continued Goodyear-Zeppelin Cooperation?

As far as the bombers, I could see the American's picking it up from the british, and the british just being the leaders in that field, at least for a while.
Without a World War II in the 40s, I'd see most technology lag behind OTL levels.

And another question...would there ultimately be an alternative World War II at some point? If there were, I'd most likely see it between the west and the Soviet Union. Although I could just as easily imagine that USSR and the West would just slip into some sort of Cold War. Any thoughts on this?
 
...Anyway...in this TL, I've got PanAm being the US carrier, with Goodyear just producing the airships for the states. Would that be the most likely outcome with continued Goodyear-Zeppelin Cooperation?...

Yes, I think it would be. I know I mentioned American Airlines (which in apparently OTL really did work with DZR to provide connecting flights), but I forgot about PanAm's legal monopoly on overseas flights. Make the naval airship program a success and there'll be government incentives to operate a civilian airship fleet of some sort (& trans-Pacific/trans-Atlantic routes are only ones that seem to make sense). Maybe a NY-SF run as part of a round-the-world service with DELAG/DZR. I wonder if DELAG would still get nationalized as in OTL? I don't think Eckner would object since the Nazis aren't in power and it could benefit the company.
 
The gross lift of the Hindenberg was 232,000 kg. Subtracting the empty weight of 130,000 kg, that gives 102 tonnes of lift. After allowing for fuel, crew, nachos, lingerie, etc. (IMHO, nachos and lingerie are essential to the operation of any lighter-than-air vessel!) that might leave you with 40-50 tonnes of payload? Impressive for an aircraft, but hardly enough to serve as a fleet oiler.

There really isn't any way around this, because no matter how much you improve your technology, hydrogen molecules will always have a molecular weight of 2. The only way to increase lift will be to make the ships bigger, and even some of the monsters proposed on this thread, with twice the length and eight times the volume of the Hindenberg, are only going to be able to carry cargo loads comparable to that of a C-5B... at one fifth the speed.

From a supply standpoint, airships are going to work like oversize helicopters that can stay aloft and/or hover for days. There are a lot of good military and commercial uses for a transportation system like that, but carrying as many supplies as ships or rail lines will not be one of them.
These airships have developed effective technology to carry lots of load, but still some improvements need to be done to make it more safe:)
 
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