Plausible: Spartakian Religion?

HueyLong

Banned
Surprised it isn't a more common WI (I hear about the idea ll the time), and found no mention of it on the boards so.........

What is the plausibility of Spartacus becoming a martyr style God in classical Rome, a slave king who arose to the heavens?
 

Glen

Moderator
HueyLong said:
Surprised it isn't a more common WI (I hear about the idea ll the time), and found no mention of it on the boards so.........

What is the plausibility of Spartacus becoming a martyr style God in classical Rome, a slave king who arose to the heavens?

A Thracian Christ?
 

HueyLong

Banned
Basically, although the theology would be quite different. But, you didn't answer my question: is it plausible?
 
I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
His day is marching on.

I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
As ye deal with my enslavers, so with you my grace shall deal;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the Roman with His heel,
His truth is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat:
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
His truth goes marching on!

In the beauty of the lilies he was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
He died not to make men holy, he died to make men free,
His truth goes marching on!

He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
He is wisdom to the mighty, He is succour to the brave,
So the world shall be His footstool, no more will ,
Spartacus goes marching on!

I once toyed with something for Answers for Milinda, where *Spartacus is a sage who recognizes how slavery traps men in the cycle of reincarnation.

"He who was a slave shall be a master; he who is a master shall be a slaver. As you do unto others, so shall others do unto you. Until this ends, how can there be salvation?"
 
Faeelin said:
"He who was a slave shall be a master; he who is a master shall be a slaver. As you do unto others, so shall others do unto you. Until this ends, how can there be salvation?"

I like this one:) Do you have a TL with it?
 
VoCSe said:
"Slave" would make more sense than "slaver" in the 2nd sentence.

Yes; this was a typo.

Hrm. The lyrics would actually work better as:

I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred mining camps,
They have builded Him an altar on the Coliseum's ramps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
His day is marching on.


Fabilus: Do a search for Answers for Milinda. It would've been set in that TL.

Short explanation: The indo-greeks conquer the northern part of the subcontinent; buddhism goes west, while the Han open up trade routes to the Hellenistic World.

Meanwhile, the Enlightened Ones journey into Gaul, where they function as monks and assist the Aedui in dominating the tribes and setting up a centralized Gallic kingdom.
 
Perhaps the Romans are overthrown by a slave rebellion a century after Spartacus inspired by his religion. The new Empire makes it the state religion (or maybe they'd have freedom of religion, although I doubt it), and spreads it around the Europe. Europe never goes through the Dark Ages, because the idea of slave-master no longer exists and serfdom never get off the ground.
 
I think it has some plausibility as a slave cult. It might jump into the general population as some of its devotees become freedmen and women.
Important though, it would be wrong to imagine that Spartakians are quasi-Christians. Aside from the likely symbol of the cross and a sense of support for the oppressed, the two aren't likely to have much cross-over. Unlike Jesus, it would be hard for the Spartakians to argue that their hero was killed because of a Roman misunderstanding.
Spartacus the God would be more like a legendary god-king or hero, like Hercules or Romulus. The cult probably wouldn't have much advanced theology (although it's not out of the question, more than a few slaves were educated). More likely he would be someone whose devotees offer sacrifices for assistance and freedom (possibily Roman blood as the main sacrifice).
 

Rocano

Banned
The lower rings of the Romans elevate him to Godhood. The Spartakan Cult becomes a Religion in Southern Italy after the fall of Rome. The Visigoths take a while and try to beat down the faith but when they fall the Spartakians have established themselves as the prominent Religion in Southern Italy. As the faith spreads to the Peasants of Europe the City of Naples becomes its Holy City.

If not Southern Italy where else could it survive.
 
I think it has some plausibility as a slave cult. It might jump into the general population as some of its devotees become freedmen and women.

The Cult of Spartacus looks like it would very much be a slave/low class religion. Rather than the nice message of Christ though its message is down-right revolutionary.

Important though, it would be wrong to imagine that Spartakians are quasi-Christians. Aside from the likely symbol of the cross and a sense of support for the oppressed, the two aren't likely to have much cross-over.

I'm imagining a symbol that look like the Roman Catholic crucifix, with "King of the Slaves" nailed above the body.

Unlike Jesus, it would be hard for the Spartakians to argue that their hero was killed because of a Roman misunderstanding.

i.e. The Spartakians won't be able to blame a minority religious/ethnic group for their savior's death?

I don't know, if the Spartakians gain prominence, I think they could square their religion's theology with the powers that be. Perhaps Spartakian is the religion of choice for the invading barbarians.

Spartacus the God would be more like a legendary god-king or hero, like Hercules or Romulus. The cult probably wouldn't have much advanced theology (although it's not out of the question, more than a few slaves were educated). More likely he would be someone whose devotees offer sacrifices for assistance and freedom (possibily Roman blood as the main sacrifice).

This cult is looking like it could be a social movement. As a religion that would be suppressed by the Roman authorities I think that you would see it forced underground, ala Christianity.

Anyone for a timeline with the Cult of Spartacus as a BC version of Communism?
 
I wonder if it will really be as primitive a theology as we're thinking.

A Stoic Thinker, Blossius of Cumae, for instance, helped the Attalid pretender Aristonicus in his revolt against Rome, and the movement had a social dimension, with followers striving to build a city of the free, where none were slaves. So I could see TStoic thinking playning a role in the faith.
 
Fabilus: Do a search for Answers for Milinda. It would've been set in that TL.

Short explanation: The indo-greeks conquer the northern part of the subcontinent; buddhism goes west, while the Han open up trade routes to the Hellenistic World.

Meanwhile, the Enlightened Ones journey into Gaul, where they function as monks and assist the Aedui in dominating the tribes and setting up a centralized Gallic kingdom.


Yes, anyone who hasn't read this really, REALLY should (IMO).
 
If we suppose that religion to arise anywhere but in the extreme East of the Empire, then the question for theology and relations to philosophy are anachronistic (or, rather ana-cultural).
In Roman-Greek culture, religion was mainly cult, whereas ethics and world view are matters of philosophy. Religion and philosophy do not have much to do with each other!

Hence I even doubt that such a religion could come about, even if mostly cultic. You imply some ethical claim, which does not go well with religion.

Therefore you are actually going for a philosophic school founded by slaves. This is quite hard to imagine, at least if they have nothing more in common than being a Roman slave. For an upheaval, however, that is enough for common ground.

You might argue that early Christianity also is some sort of philosophy spread not only by slaves, but mostly by barbarians. However, those had much more common ground, for instance interest for and familiarity with Jewish religion.
 

The Sandman

Banned
Well, the Roman aristocracy would almost certainly see such a religion as blasphemy, or simply mad. Of course any believer's response to that would be "Mad? THIS...IS...SPARTACUS!"
 
Top