Plausibility of a Nuclear Bruce Ivins?

Delta Force

Banned
There's a long history of irregularities surrounding nuclear material in the United States: the 1965 Apollo Affair involving missing highly enriched uranium, the unknown whereabouts of several nuclear fuel rods from the Humboldt Bay nuclear reactor in California, plutonium and other nuclear materials missing from reprocessing operations and unaccounted for (these unaccounted for losses exist in every nuclear program and account for several percent of total materials), including allegations that Karen Silkwood stole plutonium from the Cimarron Fuel Fabrication Site to contaminate herself with, and even an 1989 EPA/FBI raid of the government's own Rocky Flats nuclear weapons plant!

How plausible would it be for a government or private worker to have done with nuclear materials what some allege Bruce Ivins did with anthrax, stealing restricted nuclear materials and then using them to create contamination or even a dirty bomb or nuclear weapon?
 

asnys

Never say never. I think I read somewhere a news story about a Manhattan Project worker who stole a few slivers of plutonium back in the '40s as a souvenir, but I may be misremembering.

Ironically, I just finished reading a government study on (among other things) the feasibility of stealing nuclear materials to make a nuclear weapon. A bit dated - it was from the '70s - but still good stuff. Basically, though: it's almost (but not completely) impossible for one person to steal enough material to make an actual nuclear weapon without being caught, especially if it's supposed to be done all at once, instead of over a period of years. Even if they did manage to get the material, it's unlikely that a single person would have all of the different skills - nuclear physics, explosives, machining - to turn it into a nuclear weapon.

It's much more plausible that they could steal a smaller amount of material - say, a few tens or hundreds of grams - especially if the material is not weapons material. In principle you could turn this material into a "dirty bomb", but in practice, with this amount of material the impact is likely to be primarily psychological rather than physical - because if you try to smuggle out something really nasty, like cesium-137, you're probably going to give yourself radiation poisoning before you can do anything with it. At that point, you'd be better off trying to obtain medical or industrial radiation sources, rather than trying to smuggle nuclear material out of your workplace.
 

Delta Force

Banned
asnys said:
A bit dated - it was from the '70s - but still good stuff. Basically, though: it's almost (but not completely) impossible for one person to steal enough material to make an actual nuclear weapon without being caught, especially if it's supposed to be done all at once, instead of over a period of years. Even if they did manage to get the material, it's unlikely that a single person would have all of the different skills - nuclear physics, explosives, machining - to turn it into a nuclear weapon.
Click to expand...

So I went and did this:

Well, I left Kentucky back in forty nine
An' went to Denver workin' on a 'sembly line
The first year they had me puttin' fins on nuclear packs

Every day I'd watch them beauties roll by
And sometimes I'd hang my head and cry
'Cause I always wanted me one that was long and black.

One day I devised myself a plan
That should be the envy of most any man
I'd sneak it out of there in a lunchbox in my hand
Now gettin' caught meant gettin' fired
But I figured I'd have it all by the time I retired
I'd have me a bomb worth at least a hundred grand.

I'd get it one piece at a time
And it wouldn't cost me a dime
You'll know it's me when I come through your town
I'm gonna ride around in style
I'm gonna drive Geiger counters wild
'Cause I'll have the only one there is around.

So the very next day when I punched in
With my big lunchbox and with help from my friends
I left that day with a lunch box full of gear
I've never considered myself a thief
But the AEC wouldn't miss just one little piece
Especially if I strung it out over several years.

The first day I got me a tritium pump
And the next day I got me a plutonium lump
Then I got me a transmitter and all the chrome
The little things I could get in my big lunchbox
Like nuts, an' bolts, and all the trigger locks
But the big stuff we snuck out in my buddy's mobile home.

Now, up to now my plan went all right
'Til we tried to put it all together one night
And that's when we noticed that something was definitely wrong.

The transmitter was from a Mk. 13
And the core turned out to be from a B53
And when we tried to put in the bolts all the holes were gone.

So we drilled it out so that it would fit
And with a little bit of help with an adapter kit
We had that core sizzlin' just like a bomb
Now the radar probes' was another sight
We had two on the left and one on the right
But when we pulled out the switch all three of 'em come on.

The back end looked kinda funny too
But we put it together and when we got through
Well, that's when we noticed that we only had one tail-fin
About that time my wife walked out
And I could see in her eyes that she had her doubts
But she opened the door and said "Honey, take me for a spin."

So we drove up town just to get the tags
And I headed her right on down main drag
I could hear everybody runnin' for blocks around
But up there at the AEC they didn't laugh
'Cause they had to investigate all the staff
And when they got through the file weighed sixty pounds.

I got it one piece at a time
And it wouldn't cost me a dime
You'll know it's me when I come through your town
I'm gonna ride around in style
I'm gonna drive Geiger counters wild
'Cause I'll have the only one there is around.

Ugh! Yeah, RED ROMEO
This is COTTON MIKE
With the PSYCHO-BILLY BOMB Come on

Huh, This is the COTTON MIKE
And negatory on the cost of this mow-chine there RED ROMEO
You might say I went right up to the factory
And picked it up, it's cheaper that way
Ugh!, what model is it?

Well, It's a Mk. 4, Mk. 5, Mk. 6, Mk. 7, Mk. 8, Mk. 9, Mk. 10
Mk. 11, Mk. 12, Mk. 13 atomic bomb
It's a Mk. 14, Mk. 15, Mk. 16, Mk. 17, Mk. 21, Mk. 24, Mk. 28, Mk. 36, Mk. 39, Mk. 41, Mk. 46
Mk. 53, Mk. 57, Mk. 61 thermonuclear bomb.
 
Last edited:

Delta Force

Banned
asnys said:
Never say never. I think I read somewhere a news story about a Manhattan Project worker who stole a few slivers of plutonium back in the '40s as a souvenir, but I may be misremembering.
Click to expand...

Seems it was Sanford Lawrence Simmons, and he also took some uranium.

Ironically, I just finished reading a government study on (among other things) the feasibility of stealing nuclear materials to make a nuclear weapon. A bit dated - it was from the '70s - but still good stuff. Basically, though: it's almost (but not completely) impossible for one person to steal enough material to make an actual nuclear weapon without being caught, especially if it's supposed to be done all at once, instead of over a period of years. Even if they did manage to get the material, it's unlikely that a single person would have all of the different skills - nuclear physics, explosives, machining - to turn it into a nuclear weapon.

It's much more plausible that they could steal a smaller amount of material - say, a few tens or hundreds of grams - especially if the material is not weapons material. In principle you could turn this material into a "dirty bomb", but in practice, with this amount of material the impact is likely to be primarily psychological rather than physical - because if you try to smuggle out something really nasty, like cesium-137, you're probably going to give yourself radiation poisoning before you can do anything with it. At that point, you'd be better off trying to obtain medical or industrial radiation sources, rather than trying to smuggle nuclear material out of your workplace.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to the report?
 
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