Plausibility: Northern state secedes to the CSA

Germaniac

Donor
Is it possible for a Northern state, not the border states a full blown northern state, to secede to the CSA? I'm thinking its ASB but it just popped into my head and got me wondering. New Jersey possibly, It was the last northern state to ban slavery and wasn't fazed out until the 30's. in 1860 Jersey was pro south and was the only free state to not vote for Lincoln. Now obviously it would be quickly conquered by the Union but what would the effects be
 
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I find it highly unlikely a northern state would secede and join the CSA. Maybe if something caused the Union government to implode, a state might join the CSA for stability reasons...?

I get the feeling it's ASB.
 
One of the Northern slave states might join, but probably not. I'm inclined to think that any state seceding from the North would just become its own country, rather than glom onto the South.
 
Is it possible for a Northern state, not the border states a full blown northern state, to secede to the CSA? I'm thinking its ASB but it just popped into my head and got me wondering. New Jersey possibly, It was the last northern state to ban slavery and wasn't fazed out until the 30's. in 1860 Jersey was pro south and was the only free state to not vote for Lincoln. Now obviously it would be quickly conquered by the Union but what would the effects be

Not a border state?

jersey is probably too far north, and at this point I think it was solidly a free state (albiet fairly conservative IIRC).

There were a few plans in some western areas to secede. California, Colorado, and New Mexico, although only the first of those was a state at the time and New Mexico is probably the only territory where the southern sympathizers had a realistic chance.

Now, they weren't planning on joining the confederacy, but there were some plans in the (old) northwest to rebel and form an independent republic. Obviously, these came to nothing, but still...
 
You could sell me on a New England seccession... or maybe a California seccession if the war drags on too long, but I wouldn't see either joining the South.
 
There was a minority in Indiana that was at least symphatetic towards the South, but it was never strong enough to carry the whole state (that, and the sitting Governor was a very staunch Unionist). If there were a PoD somewhat further back involving either or both of the following:
  • Indiana has no shoreline on Lake Michigan, and thus is more reliant on the Ohio / Mississippi river system (there was a tentative map drawn which set the northern border of Indiana at the southern tip of Lake Michigan)
  • The government and thus the center of population remains in the southern part of the state (I have some notes around here someplace about Indianapolis never being founded, and Corydon near the Ohio River remaining the state capital)
(These are, admittedly, both rather far-fetched)
 
New Hampshire is The ONLY One that Comes to My Mind, Being The Birth-Place of a Dough-Faced President ...

Unfortunately, Unless The St. Albans Assault Turns into an Out-and-Out Coup, I wouldn't Expect Any New England State to Join The CSA ...

At Least Not during The 1860s, Anyway; we Might do it Tomorrow with The Way Things are Getting up Here, though!

:eek:
 
Indiana has no shoreline on Lake Michigan

Are we talking about the same Indiana?

As for the OP, maybe a much, MUCH earlier Civil War, like 1803 or something results. The South beats the Federal government and New England secedes forming their own nation. New England and the South wouldn't unify, but maybe make an economic union between the two. Prolong the slave trade and make for some sick butterflies.
 
Is it possible for a Northern state, not the border states a full blown northern state, to secede to the CSA? I'm thinking its ASB but it just popped into my head and got me wondering. New Jersey possibly, It was the last northern state to ban slavery and wasn't fazed out until the 30's. in 1860 Jersey was pro south and was the only free state to not vote for Lincoln. Now obviously it would be quickly conquered by the Union but what would the effects be

I can't think of any non-border northern state with enough Southern & pro-slavery sympathy to mount a successful secession from USA to join CSA movement. That said, if such a thing unfolded, I imagine that patriotic zeal (amongst US "Union" Americans) and the desire to crush the rebels would greatly increase.
 

67th Tigers

Banned
Is it possible for a Northern state, not the border states a full blown northern state, to secede to the CSA? I'm thinking its ASB but it just popped into my head and got me wondering. New Jersey possibly, It was the last northern state to ban slavery and wasn't fazed out until the 30's. in 1860 Jersey was pro south and was the only free state to not vote for Lincoln. Now obviously it would be quickly conquered by the Union but what would the effects be

The "ethnic" border between the two Cultures of the US is quite far north. Illinois (originally Illinois County, Virginia) could very easily have gone Confederate. The southern areas of the old NW was solidly pro-CS.

The election map shows the Lincoln took mostly New England through New York to the northern fringes of the old NW:

1860prescountymap.PNG
 
Perhaps a northern state joins the CSA for reasons other than slavery?

If the CSA won, the Union government could overreact and get very, very centralized. For vindictiveness, it might put lots of trade barriers on the CSA.

A Union state dependent on the Mississippi for trade might not like this very much.
 
67th Tigers said:
The "ethnic" border between the two Cultures of the US is quite far north. Illinois (originally Illinois County, Virginia) could very easily have gone Confederate. The southern areas of the old NW was solidly pro-CS.


Thanks for the map, but that is not what it shows. The southern fringes of the old NW were solidly pro-Douglas, which is quite a different thing. Douglas was strongly pro-Union and the northern Democrats who supported him were not secessionist.


What do the gray counties on the map mean? I know the people of South Carolina did not vote for President, the Electors were picked by the State Legislature, but the counties in Minnesota, Michigan, and Texas can't be for that reason.
 
What do the gray counties on the map mean? I know the people of South Carolina did not vote for President, the Electors were picked by the State Legislature, but the counties in Minnesota, Michigan, and Texas can't be for that reason.

Could they be either unorganized territory within the state or perhaps organized as part of a more populated county and divided up later? That practice was not uncommon.
 

Germaniac

Donor
How about this... Somehow the South is able to come to an agreement with the North that they would be allowed to secede. Would it be possible for any other states to then attempt to join the new confederacy, not for slavery but possibly for States rights issues as the Union will likely turn uber centralization
 
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