Plausibility Check: USSR and Weimar Germany partition Poland in 1920

raharris1973

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Sorry @Mikey for me being a jerk, sorry @CalBear for me raising your blood pressure, misbehaving, lowering the standard, and exasperating you, and sorry to everyone for you having to see that.
 

raharris1973

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Not exactly.
Soviet-Polish relations, 1917-1921
Book by Piotr S. Wandycz
In the book, Kamenev was given orders to 'preserve the borders of Lithuania and Latvia to their fullest' even if the Soviets won. Estonia seems to be fair game though. Honestly this belief that the Soviets would do this and that if they're slightly more successful seems to stem from a neo-red scare. Estonia seems to have been the only Baltic state under the hitlist if the Soviets won in Poland. Specific orders came to honour the boundaries of Lithuania and Latvia.

Would independent Lithuania include Vilnius, or not include Vilnius? In the OTL Soviet-Polish War the Reds marched right through the town.
 

Rivercat893

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I seriously doubt that the USSR and Weimar Germany would partition Poland in the event of a successful invasion. A Soviet-occupied Poland would cause the Red Scare to be much worse in this timeline, especially for Germany, who had already experienced the Spartacist Uprising in 1919 and certainly wouldn't welcome communists near their borders.
 

raharris1973

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I seriously doubt that the USSR and Weimar Germany would partition Poland in the event of a successful invasion. A Soviet-occupied Poland would cause the Red Scare to be much worse in this timeline, especially for Germany, who had already experienced the Spartacist Uprising in 1919 and certainly wouldn't welcome communists near their borders.

What would they do after a successful invasion then, impose no border changes? Impose limited border changes but leave the original regime in charge? How limited would those changes be?

What's the level of timidity we expect from Germany? No adjustment to Versailles borders, or OK with adjusting them to seize territorial corridors, but always wanting a noncommunist Polish buffer?

From the Soviets, even if they occupy Warsaw, Cracow and old Congress Poland, they won't use that to set up a puppet Red Poland? Instead they will just use that advantage to force the Poles to accept the Curzon Line and maybe pay reparations, to avoid too much red scaring?
 

Rivercat893

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What would they do after a successful invasion then, impose no border changes? Impose limited border changes but leave the original regime in charge? How limited would those changes be?

What's the level of timidity we expect from Germany? No adjustment to Versailles borders, or OK with adjusting them to seize territorial corridors, but always wanting a noncommunist Polish buffer?

From the Soviets, even if they occupy Warsaw, Cracow and old Congress Poland, they won't use that to set up a puppet Red Poland? Instead they will just use that advantage to force the Poles to accept the Curzon Line and maybe pay reparations, to avoid too much red scaring?
Germany would try to at least seize some of its original territories when it was under the rule of the Kaiser like Danzig or Pomerania to create a buffer zone that would stop the Soviets from launching another invasion. The USSR could also create a puppet state or annex Poland since some of the CPSU's members were of Polish descent such as Felix Dzherzhinsky.
 

raharris1973

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Germany would try to at least seize some of its original territories when it was under the rule of the Kaiser like Danzig or Pomerania to create a buffer zone that would stop the Soviets from launching another invasion. The USSR could also create a puppet state or annex Poland since some of the CPSU's members were of Polish descent such as Felix Dzherzhinsky.

Oh, so by not partitioning Poland, you just meant they would not do something that partitioned Poland like Molotov-Ribbentropp map, giving Germany territory that hadn't been German for a century.
 

Rivercat893

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Oh, so by not partitioning Poland, you just meant they would not do something that partitioned Poland like Molotov-Ribbentropp map, giving Germany territory that hadn't been German for a century.
Something along the lines of that. The big difference is that since Germany already had experienced a communist uprising a year ago, any land concessions with the Soviet Union would be like a deal with the devil.
 
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