Plausibility Check: Transatlantic Crusades

Is this idea possible in some vague form? Anything can be modified as long as the general idea stays.

A seaworthy ship is invented in the Maghreb or Iberia a few hundred years early.

Moors, possibly Almoravids, discover the Americas, spreading Islam there and settling to some extent. The discovery occurs either on some ruler's whim, or because Byzantines, Crusaders, and heterodox Muslim Egyptians block eastern trade.

The Spanish states steadily push out the taifas resulting from the fall of whatever dynasty controls most of al-Andalus at the time of the discovery.

After gunpowder arrives in Iberia, the Spaniards perform New World conquests similar to those of OTL, but end up absorbing partially Islamized populations already there.
 

Strategos

Banned
Why Crusade against them when Muslims are much closer? Thats the first question. Easily diverted of course when considering that the discovery of the New World could prompt a conversion race of sorts.

Empires built for faith instead of greed at first.


....


There is no way this wont be horrific in the extreme.
 
Why Crusade against them when Muslims are much closer? Thats the first question. Easily diverted of course when considering that the discovery of the New World could prompt a conversion race of sorts.

Empires built for faith instead of greed at first.


....


There is no way this wont be horrific in the extreme.
Well they wouldn't be official Crusades. It would just be the OTL colonization of the Americas, except the knowledge that they existed was already there (probably even with proof of gold), and a significant amount of natives of OTL Latin America have been semi-Islamized, while some areas have already been exposed to disease.
 
The ship is not going to be the problem. The navigational skills are, but not insurmountably. The problem is, if the Spanish Muslims can reliably go to the Caribbean and come back, then they can also reliably to go West Africa, South Africa, Brazil, Florida, the St Lawrence - they own the Atlantic. That provides them with a) a power base that will make it harder for the Spanish to dislodge them and b) a valuable asset that will interest bigger Islamic powers. It is not likely they will go down that easily, even if it means calling in the Mamluks or Ottomans for help.

I don't see this ending well for the Spaniards. And that's not even counting the fact that the Americans they will meet will have European technologies, been through European diseases, and know them for what they are.
 
I wonder if there's any way to make the conquest of the Native Americans a more international affair. In OTL these were undertaken by only the Spanish, but a more multinational "Latin" America from the getgo would be interesting.
 
I guess I shouldn't have called it a Crusade. It doesn't require the Pope to actually call a crusade or multiple, it's just Christians conquering Islamized areas in the New World.

Perhaps Transatlantic "Reconquista" would work better, even though it's not a reconquest.

Wasn't the sole point of The Crusades to liberate the Holy Land?
There were also crusades in the Baltic, France, etc., and most importantly for this scenario, the Reconquista.

The ship is not going to be the problem. The navigational skills are, but not insurmountably. The problem is, if the Spanish Muslims can reliably go to the Caribbean and come back, then they can also reliably to go West Africa, South Africa, Brazil, Florida, the St Lawrence - they own the Atlantic. That provides them with a) a power base that will make it harder for the Spanish to dislodge them and b) a valuable asset that will interest bigger Islamic powers. It is not likely they will go down that easily, even if it means calling in the Mamluks or Ottomans for help.

I don't see this ending well for the Spaniards. And that's not even counting the fact that the Americans they will meet will have European technologies, been through European diseases, and know them for what they are.
In 1600, despite the New World having been settled by Spaniards for a century, the Spaniards were a very small part of the population.

The actual Moors would be a very small group, and the vast majority of them, even, would be at least half native.

They also wouldn't have gunpowder, and would not be united under one state--rather there would be dozens of tribes that were converted to Islam and usurped by Moorish 'conquistadors'/ghazis. And they would also still be susceptible to disease, though lower population density and a mix of native and Islamic hygiene/medicine (well, which side the mix leans to depends on region) would allow them to resist it better.

Spain would have more of a challenge when conquering the New World, but they would still have distinct advantages.

Basically, the point of the scenario is to make the conquest/colonization of America more eventful and drawn out, essentially extending the Reconquista west.

End result might be an Islamic Andean empire of mostly native ancestry, tribes of migrating Muslims in the Great Plains, a continuous frontier war between Malinese and European settlers in Brazil, and cool Andalusian architecture throughout the Atlantic coast of the New World. Barbary pirates might transfer to the Caribbean.
 
Spain would have more of a challenge when conquering the New World, but they would still have distinct advantages.
If the Iberian Muslim states were gathering wealth from overseas colonies, and presumably a global trade empire like Carlton-Bach proposed, Spain is going to have a stiff challenge conquering the rest of the Iberian peninsula, if they even manage a defensive war.
 
If the Iberian Muslim states were gathering wealth from overseas colonies, and presumably a global trade empire like Carlton-Bach proposed, Spain is going to have a stiff challenge conquering the rest of the Iberian peninsula, if they even manage a defensive war.
That's not part of the scenario though, even if it's an interesting other possibility.

The initial expeditions would almost certainly occur during the twilight of the Almoravid Empire, since the development of the alt-caravel would take a while.

By the time the Almoravids collapse, the Moorish navigators in the west have mostly only explored, and created a few settlements. They may never conquer Mexico independently, with no cannons or arquebuses.

If they do manage to conquer Mexico, there's no saying it won't be independent from the Andalusian states.

Then the Christians conclude the Reconquista like OTL, learning new shipmaking techniques and stories of gold in the west. And being made aware of the existence numerous 'heathen' empires.
 
Outline/rough idea for the beginning part. Using OTL ruler names for ease. They will be changed.

1090s: Old yet highly wealthy and the most powerful ruler in the West, Yusuf ibn Tashfin sponsors the colonization of the Canarias and the creation of a school for navigators. He did commission numerous naval bases and fleets in OTL.

Independent voyage from Lisbon carried to the Caribbean, never to be seen again and not noted until a almost a hundred years later. OTL legend of the Mugharrarin by al-Idrisi, except they don't return, and they settle in the island of Guadeloupe.

1106: Ali ibn Yusuf coronated.

1110s: Ali ibn Yusuf conquers, then loses Zaragoza. Disappointed, he looks to the wealthy final decades of his father's reign, visiting the school for navigators, who give him some ideas about areas to explore and some types of ships to build. Voyages go south to West Africa, and continue to go to the Canarias. One gets lost out West. An overland expedition through the Sahara, the largest yet, visits West Africa.

1120s: Crusader states, the Byzantine Empire, and a temporary Nubian dynasty of Egypt allied with the Crusaders isolate North African and Andalusian Islamic states from the East.

The voyage that got lost returns. They had faced Atlantic storms, crashing on the coast of Madeira, and had to live in the wilderness, all the while trying to rig a new vessel from the ruins of the three they lost. Upon returning, wanting some recourse for their hardship, they lie to Ali and say they found a vast Western land, hoping they will get sponsorship.

Ali believes this, and much to their dismay he asks that they join the voyage. They agree, then disappear never to be seen again, not wanting to be caught lying to the Sultan and not wanting to possibly go out on the ocean to die.

1130s: Ali begins to have troubles with the Masmuda. Caravel-like ship developed. Voyages continue, but not a transatlantic one as Ali realizes the men had attempted to lie.

Independent voyage managed by the Andalusians led by an Ahmad ibn Muhammad. They get carried into the Caribbean, settling on Hispaniola.

1137: Ali dies, succeeded by his son Tashfin. Tashfin sends five different voyages into the sea, eating away at the coffers. He is seen as disconnected from the world and somewhat crazy for the first few years of his rule, but then...

1141: Word returns of Bermuda, Barbados, and the Kongolese. Tashfin mounts an expedition of six ships and 800 men to the Caribbean, who find the already-settled Guadeloupe.

1144: Tashfin is killed by the Almohads in battle. He is succeeded by his infant son Ibrahim, who is assassinated in the same year.

1145: Ishaq bin Ali, brother of Tashfin, succeeds to the throne. After being defeated by Almohads, he and his supporters depart into the sea.

Plans were to relocate to Almeria and Valencia, but the fleet is intercepted. He then goes west and arrives in Cadiz, but rebels, Spanish marauders, or Almohads, he can't tell which, prevent him from setting up shop there. His crewmembers suggest going to the Canarias.

1146: Ishaq establishes his rule over the Canarias, and he sees the arrival of exiles after the Almohad conquest. The Almoravids persist in the Canarias.

1150s: The Almohads, having taken care of the more important Iberia and North Afirca, finally get around to conquering the Canarias. Ishaq escapes by sea, to the Caribbean.

Arriving in Guadeloupe, he establishes himself as the ruler there.

1160s: Abu Yaqub Yusuf of the Almohads begins to ravage Iberia, conquering city after city with vast African armies.

1170s: The Christians coalign against the Moorish threat, forming a Holy Coalition against the Almohads. The Battle of Castellón sees the death of the Almohad Sultan and a Christian victory.

1180s: Seeking revenge, Abu Yusuf Yaqub al-Mansur ends his regency, during which he was protected by powerful relatives, and invades the Christian kingdoms. Winning victory after victory, the Almohads reach a new height in their power.

During this age, philosophy, science, architecture, trade, and of course, navigation, flourish.

Capetown, the Antilles, Hispaniola, Cuba, and for the first time the mainland of South America, are all settled, conquered, or claimed.

Ghazis from Andalusia wreak havoc in the New World, usurping native tribes.

1190s: The golden age wasn't sustainable. In 1183 and 1184, the Marinids win some victories, taking swathes of North Africa. In 1189, a Christian coalition conquers Valencia.

1200s: The Almohads lose all but the region around Marrakech after the Christians win at Lisbon and the Marinids rise again

Moors are exiled by Christian victories, going to Morocco. Some of them go to the Canarias or the Caribbean.

1210s: The Battle of Jaén is won by Christians.

In the New World, Nasir ibn Muhammad unites Cuba.

1220s: The Marinids lead a charge north and reconquer various lands in Iberia. The Pope calls a Crusade, and Christians conquer Córdoba after restoring all the territories lost.

1230s: A deposed king of Mali relocates to Brazil. Christians conquer Sevilla.

1240s: Marinids rise again. Almohad puppet state is finally crushed, and the Marinids firmly hold Granada.

Marwan ibn Nasir, Emir of Cuba, conquers Mexico.
 
I beg you continue this.
Well if I do I will start a separate thread and write it in a more descriptive style.

I just want to see if there are major logical errors in that idea; now that there's a more detailed outline people can comment more directly.
 
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