Plausibility Check: Mongol Constantinople
- Thread starter Will Kürlich Kerl
- Start date
In a sentence: Yes.
Constantinople is in many ways the most difficult capital city in Eurasia to capture thanks to the Theodosian Walls and the Bosphorous providing a secure supply line but as the 4th Crusade and the Ottomans demonstrated it can be stormed. That said it will be very difficult, much more than Baghdad or the Chinese cities which placed more emphasis on field armies to defend themselves rather than fixed fortifications, leaving them very vulnerable after the Mongols slaughtered the field army in open battle. That's what happened at Baghdad, the Caliph sent 20,000 men out to face the Mongol army, they got slaughtered to a man and when the Mongols arrived at the city gates there weren't enough defenders left to man the walls.
Constantinople is in many ways the most difficult capital city in Eurasia to capture thanks to the Theodosian Walls and the Bosphorous providing a secure supply line but as the 4th Crusade and the Ottomans demonstrated it can be stormed. That said it will be very difficult, much more than Baghdad or the Chinese cities which placed more emphasis on field armies to defend themselves rather than fixed fortifications, leaving them very vulnerable after the Mongols slaughtered the field army in open battle. That's what happened at Baghdad, the Caliph sent 20,000 men out to face the Mongol army, they got slaughtered to a man and when the Mongols arrived at the city gates there weren't enough defenders left to man the walls.
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A navy would almost certainly be a prerequisite for a Mongol conquest. I have doubts they could capture Constantinople solely by attacking and investing the land walls, as otherwise reinforcements and supplies for the City will be brought in by shipping. This is assuming the defenders meet the Mongols with well-prepared defenses and don't do anything stupid, like the defenders of so many cities did in so many other Mongol conquests (meeting them outside the walls in pitched battle, etc.).
Deleted member 67076
The Mongols would probably need treachery to be let inside. That said, once they have the city they might receive a warmer welcome than most of their conquests if they take the city from the Latin Empire.
I can easily see one of the Mongol leaders carving out his own fiefdom with Constantinople as his capital, probably styling himself as a Roman Emperor in the way one of the Seljuk Beliks (Chaka bey IIRC) did.
I can easily see one of the Mongol leaders carving out his own fiefdom with Constantinople as his capital, probably styling himself as a Roman Emperor in the way one of the Seljuk Beliks (Chaka bey IIRC) did.
haha no. Mongols lack navy ergo cant take constaninople. What could happen though is the mongols ally with the empire of Nikea.
Then with support form mongols Nikea destroys the Latin empire and retakes Constantinople akin to otl when it was retaken. Shortly thereafter say a powerful mongol prince of the genghisid line preferably the elder or second son of the illkhan, marries a princess of the royal house Paleologos.
You then have the new Emperor of the Byzantines die due to disease of some sort, and than civil war breaks out with this mongol prince claiming the throne for himself. His side wins and he enters Constantinople triumphant and converts to orthodox Christianity and becomes crowned emperor. Then the Illkhan passes away and this prince now emperor claims the Ilkhanate for himself and starts a succession war. He uses the money and wealth from the Ere to lobby the Great Khan in the east to recognize him as the new illkhan. Ergo you get a mongol controlled constatnople that stretches from persia to the balkans under the control of a mongol emperor/khan. Is that possible?
Then with support form mongols Nikea destroys the Latin empire and retakes Constantinople akin to otl when it was retaken. Shortly thereafter say a powerful mongol prince of the genghisid line preferably the elder or second son of the illkhan, marries a princess of the royal house Paleologos.
You then have the new Emperor of the Byzantines die due to disease of some sort, and than civil war breaks out with this mongol prince claiming the throne for himself. His side wins and he enters Constantinople triumphant and converts to orthodox Christianity and becomes crowned emperor. Then the Illkhan passes away and this prince now emperor claims the Ilkhanate for himself and starts a succession war. He uses the money and wealth from the Ere to lobby the Great Khan in the east to recognize him as the new illkhan. Ergo you get a mongol controlled constatnople that stretches from persia to the balkans under the control of a mongol emperor/khan. Is that possible?
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
If the Mongols were fighting the Latin Empire's finest Crusaders in their attempt to control Constantinople, they could draw support from Nicaea and some other disaffected Byzantine subjects. However, this may require nerfing Bulgaria as they played a role in weakening the Latins. Yes, I may have used this idea for "Khans and Crosses", though the Mongols had one other ally at that time: the Serbs. I don't know if the Mongols (presumably the Golden Horde) would have European allies willing to help them liberate Constantinople.
The could probably go around the Black Sea (like they did otl) lay siege on that side and the Anatolian side, starving the city, whilst building a large enough black sea fleet to launch a invasion...kinda easy, so long as the Khan doesn't die during
The Mongols were ntoriously good at adapting to situations, so long as they have the time, yes...they'd take the city
The Mongols were ntoriously good at adapting to situations, so long as they have the time, yes...they'd take the city
If he goes there as a kid would he still be Genghis Khan though? But that gets into the whole nature versus nurture debate which is off-topic for the thread.
The Mongols were very adaptable; OTL they built a gigantic navy to defeat the Song Dynasty. If they can defeat perhaps the most powerful and advanced nation on the planet, they can probably defeat the remnants of the Byzantines.
Plus, at this time the Byzantine Empire was ruled by the Catholic Latin Empire. Similar to the "Better the Turban of the Turk than the Tiara of the Pope" ideas which floated about OTL, they may prefer the Mongols to their Catholic overlords and help them depose the Latins.
Plus, at this time the Byzantine Empire was ruled by the Catholic Latin Empire. Similar to the "Better the Turban of the Turk than the Tiara of the Pope" ideas which floated about OTL, they may prefer the Mongols to their Catholic overlords and help them depose the Latins.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
At this point Bulgaria was the vassal of the Golden Horde, and there were several successor states to the Byzantine Empire. Perhaps if the Horde were to offer an alliance with Serbia, they might also gain additional help in conquering Constantinople. Of course, this might also affect the Horde's religious stance when the Mongols would conquer Constantinople. I'd go with the scenario of Sartaq surviving for this to occur.
A Mongol Constantinople, defended by an elite cadre of Bulgar horsemen, sounds like the most badass thing ever.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
Based on who is the current Khan of the Golden Horde at that time. If it's Berke, then no-go, as he may be a Muslim already.