Plausibility Check: Maoist North Vietnam.

What I'm asking in the tin, is it possible for North Vietnam to side with China in the Sino-Soviet split, rather than with the Soviets like IOTL?

I know the North Vietnamese where divided on strategy, but what about the issue of Beijing versus Moscow? Where there any significant members of their government who wanted to side with China?

I'd imagine this would have to come after the death of Ho Chi Minh, since he seemed to prefer to walk the line between China and Russia like North Korea did.

I'm curious how this would affect Vietnam War strategy overall, maybe the North would get more material aid from China? troops? The North may be seen as a Chinese puppet like North Korea.

I'm not an expert here, so maybe someone more knowledgeable can clear this up for me.
 
Here's someone you can work around:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trường_Chinh
In the 1950s, Trường Chinh supervised the Land reform in North Vietnam, which was modeled on the Chinese experience. The land reform campaign was accompanied by extensive repression and excess, which resulted the false imprisonment and execution of large numbers of people, many of whom were party members.[2] Trường Chinh had already been criticized for his unwillingness to agree with other party leaders and for his support of China while other leaders relied on the Soviet Union as their role model.
 
The vietnamese have a long and "interesting" historical relationship with the chinese :D. They are more likely to be friendly with the americans than with the chinese.
 
There was a pro China fraction in Vietnam Communist party

But there Leader Hồ Chí Minh has not happy with this.
Because China had once occupied North Vietnam as Province
and he knew once there back in Vietnam the Chinese stay
Lucky Mao had his hand full with cultural revolution that evolved into civil war.
So they not Help in full scale North Vietnam or influence it

In the TL 2001: A Space-Time Odyssey i play with this concept
A short Cultural revolution terminated by marshal Ling Biao, after Mao was killed by Red Guards by mistake.
after he stabilized China Ling Biao focus on Vietnam War to prevent a second Korea war scenario (USA invasion of Asia Communist nation and move into China.)
Offering Help material and station several devision on Border to North Vietnam
giving the pro China fraction in Vietnam Communist party strong Support
after Leader Hồ Chí Minh died the Rumor that he was poisoned, let to internal conflict in Vietnam Communist party.
were Army stay in North Vietnam protecting the Border to China in case of Invasion by China forces.
leaving the Vietcong in South Vietnam fighting for them self.
 

TinyTartar

Banned
Actually, I think Ho Chi Minh would be your best bet at doing this. He favored Maoist type reforms after ousting the French, and favored Maoist type proscription of class enemies as well. He was a nasty motherfucker, really, and he had a lot more in common with Mao's agrarian reformist class war style of governing than the massively bureaucratic and ruling class creating Soviet style, which left him with less power than Maoism would.

Now, pragmatically, he learned to straddle the fence, but his successors were far more appalled at the toll of the CCP's rule than he was.

Have Minh somehow live until 1980 and you get a more pro-China Vietnam.
 
Thanks for the feedback!

The vietnamese have a long and "interesting" historical relationship with the chinese :D. They are more likely to be friendly with the americans than with the chinese.

I don't know man, history has often created some pretty bizarre bedfellows, and there's always the collaborationist personalities eager to be puppetized.

There was a pro China fraction in Vietnam Communist party

But there Leader Hồ Chí Minh has not happy with this.
Because China had once occupied North Vietnam as Province
and he knew once there back in Vietnam the Chinese stay
Lucky Mao had his hand full with cultural revolution that evolved into civil war.
So they not Help in full scale North Vietnam or influence it

In the TL 2001: A Space-Time Odyssey i play with this concept
A short Cultural revolution terminated by marshal Ling Biao, after Mao was killed by Red Guards by mistake.
after he stabilized China Ling Biao focus on Vietnam War to prevent a second Korea war scenario (USA invasion of Asia Communist nation and move into China.)
Offering Help material and station several devision on Border to North Vietnam
giving the pro China fraction in Vietnam Communist party strong Support
after Leader Hồ Chí Minh died the Rumor that he was poisoned, let to internal conflict in Vietnam Communist party.
were Army stay in North Vietnam protecting the Border to China in case of Invasion by China forces.
leaving the Vietcong in South Vietnam fighting for them self.

A first i thought you were writing a poem and I couldn't understand. But I agree, if China is committed to North Vietnam, then the tables could be tipped to the Maoists.

Actually, I think Ho Chi Minh would be your best bet at doing this. He favored Maoist type reforms after ousting the French, and favored Maoist type proscription of class enemies as well. He was a nasty motherfucker, really, and he had a lot more in common with Mao's agrarian reformist class war style of governing than the massively bureaucratic and ruling class creating Soviet style, which left him with less power than Maoism would.

Now, pragmatically, he learned to straddle the fence, but his successors were far more appalled at the toll of the CCP's rule than he was.

Have Minh somehow live until 1980 and you get a more pro-China Vietnam.

Thank you, I've seen so much whitewashing and blindness towards North Vietnam on this board it's sickening, those were not friendly peace-loving dudes. Now your point is interesting, Ho was Maoist in internal policy, but preferred to walk the line in foreign policy and was rather weary of China.

You say he should die late, but to me, it seems an early death would more likely see the Maoist ascension before Le Duan purges the pro-China faction.
---
So going forward, one thing to do would be to have the US go North and China step in, then the North wouldn't have much of choice on internal matters anymore and they'd be an outright puppet. I wonder if that North Vietnam would still back the guerrilla efforts against the South?

But assuming no Chinese invasion, a Pro-China North Vietnam may invite in more Chinese help and large contingent of Chinese troops. The Maoists would probably gladly toe the Beijing line unlike Ho or Duan. If the Chinese and North Vietnamese go South together, I think the would throw a wrench into US-China rapprochement.

Do you guys think that's a fair assessment?
 
What I'm asking in the tin, is it possible for North Vietnam to side with China in the Sino-Soviet split, rather than with the Soviets like IOTL?

Ho Chi Minh(attributed) said:
“You fools! Don't you realize what it means if the Chinese remain? Don't you remember your history? The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a thousand years. The French are foreigners. They are weak. Colonialism is dying. The white man is finished in Asia. But if the Chinese stay now, they will never go. As for me, I prefer to sniff French shit for five years than to eat Chinese shit for the rest of my life.”

Even if Ho himself didn't say this, I think the attitude sums up the likelihood of Vietnam siding with China...

EDIT: Also, any time a nation chooses a larger nation as sponsor/suzerain, they tend to prefer a far-off one to one who's just across the border. There's a reason that the Venetians preferred Byzantine overlordship to that of the Western Empire (later the Holy Roman Empire), and it's probably the same reason that the Vietnamese preferred Soviet to Chinese assistance :D
 
Top