Plausibility Check: Italian Immigration to Spanish America

What is says on the tin. Factors to consider:

From 1556 until 1713 the King of Spain was also the ruler of the "Two Sicilies," Naples and Sicily
From 1735-1800 the "Two Sicilies" were ruled by a cadet branch of the Spanish Bourbons
The population of Naples and Sicily ranged from about 3-6 million during this period, while Spain's ranged from 7-10 million.

While many members of the religious orders who established missions Spain's empire in both the Americas and Asia were from southern Italy, few fewer Italian families migrated to the New World. How major of a change would it take to establish a major Italian presence in the New World before 1800?
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Before independence is difficult, because the

Before independence is difficult, because the both the "pull" and the "push" is so limited; policy (generally) under the Spanish was to limit emigration from Europe, outside of Spain itself, into the Empire.

Afterwards, of course, Italians made up a huge percentage of the Europeans emigrating to the Americas, both north and south.

If one or more of the Italian "nations" had both come under, remained under, Spanish control, and integrated INTO Spain in the period 1500-1800 (more or less), that would have changed, of course.

So, maybe have the Spanish actually annex and intergrate some of what they won from time to time in Italy into Spain (or the Spanish Empire, I suppose), and go on from there?

Best,
 
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Before independence is difficult, because the both the "pull" and the "push" is so limited; policy (generally) under the Spanish was to limit emigration from Europe, outside of Spain itself, into the Empire.

Afterwards, of course, Italians made up a huge percentage of the Europeans emigrating to the Americas, both north and south.

If one or more of the Italian "nations" had both come under, remained under, Spanish control, and integrated INTO Spain in the period 1500-1800 (more or less), that would have changed, of course.

So, maybe have the Spanish actually annex and integrate some of what they won from time to time in Italy into Spain (or the Spanish Empire, I suppose), and go on from there?

Best,

Integration would have helped, but that would be a tall order. Until 1715 a resident of Palermo or Naples was as much a subject of the King of Spain, as a resident of Valencia. Before the Nueva Planta decrees Navarre and Aragon were legally separate kingdoms that happened to have the same ruler.

Perhaps if Charles II had not been an invalid he might have attempted to consolidate his rule after the loss of Portugal in 1668.
 
Basically: forget it.
Such a thing would have required a completely different approach to governance of both European and American holdings of the Spains (I understand that "Spain" in the singular form had no real institutional existence before after 1700) that in turn is likely to suppose a POD before Charles V at the very least.
 
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