Plausibility Check: Indepedent Europeans in 15th/16th century Americas

I was wondering if I could make a timeline on a lost fleet or something similar landing in the Americas (presumably in the Caribbean), and founding an indepedent state that survives until the modern day. If you guys have ideas just try not to make them Spanish or Portugese because it has to be INTERESTING.
 
I was wondering if I could make a timeline on a lost fleet or something similar landing in the Americas (presumably in the Caribbean), and founding an indepedent state that survives until the modern day. If you guys have ideas just try not to make them Spanish or Portugese because it has to be INTERESTING.

You're not going to have much luck because the ones most likely to discover the Americas in the 15th-16th centuries are going to be from the Iberian peninsula i.e. Spain or Portugal. Could I cheat and have the Spanish, instead of deporting the Muslims, decide to enslave them instead and use them as a source of labor to send to the Americas? You could then have a band of Andalusian Muslims rebel and escape from the Spanish, heading into the hinterland of whatever island they're on and intermarry with the locals.
 
Maybe have some way in which European colonization of the Americas is more similar in its style to Greek colonization? Meaning, a group of citizens band together to form a new settlement overseas, with some support from their homeland. Of course, for that you'd need Europe itself to be fractured to city-states or to small statelets, and that by itself might butterfly away the discovery of the Americas.
 
With most Kingdoms backing an expedition like Columbus´ you would run into the problem that they are likely to want control over their colonies and are able to secure it. But of course he had some trouble to secure support and was turned down in Portugal, France, England and initally Spain as well.

It might be possible for someone like him to look for backing in the Hanseatic cities, preferably a bit before otl Columbus. Since an expedition starting in Hanseatic ports would end up further north, where there are no obvious riches, but trading opportunities, they might have some time until the Kingdoms wake up to the possibilities of colonies. In the meantime the Hanseatic League can establish Trading Posts. Since they have no control mechanisms for control they might end up as free cities within the League.

Of course it is an outside chance and not going to last indefinitely, but if they are nominally under the HRE, nobody else might see them worth potential trouble with the emperor and they might last long enough to get strong enough to be secure in their own right. And HRE control would be light enough to consider them independent from early on.
 
Given how hard colonies were fought over, and how many times much of the land involved changed hands, a small independent colony wouldn't stand a chance.
 

SunDeep

Banned
What about a TL where a large slave convoy to the Caribbean gets blown off course, and the freed African slaves establish their own state on the mainland- essentially, a Gullah nation, but a couple of centuries earlier?

(P.S- Oh, European. Never mind. Well, you could always try the Knights of Malta, or the Duchy of Courland. They both got involved pretty early on IOTL, and with the Couronians, it would have been interesting if the Duke Jacob had managed to escape the Swedish-Polish war by fleeing to set up a government-in-exile in Tobago/New Courland, rather than being captured by the Swedes. Could the Duchy have survived as an independent nation in the Caribbean?)
 
Last edited:
The Vikings migrating further down south 50 years earlier. The colony should also flourish and survive. This would put possible independence before the time period you require.
 

birdboy2000

Banned
A conquistador army feuds with Spain's appointed governors and declares independence? Or a governor goes rogue.

This is an era of long travel times, little real direct control, and Spanish administration at its very beginning. OTL saw more than its share of conquistador-on-conquistador violence, armed deposition, and fear of open rebellion. I don't think it all that unlikely that a charismatic, popular general could imprison the replacement sent from Madrid, declare himself an independent king, and manage to make it stick.
 
I'm not sure if it counts, but I recall a timeline or just a discussion thread where Muslims and Jews were expelled to the Americas during the final days of the Reconquista instead of what happened OTL. The Muslim and Jewish minorities in Spain landed in the New World and (somehow) travelled toward the Inca Empire, and integration with the Incan culture, language, religion and politics made a pseudo Inco-Semitic Empire with a Jewish-Islam hybrid state religion. Not sure if it's even possible however.
 
Thanks everyone for supporting this thread. If anyone wants a popular vote on what I should make into a timeline that would help. I would also request a definitive PoD, especially for the Andalusian Rebel State TL. Even though I said "European", the slave ship idea is quite plausible and effective as it COULD be possible to have a African state in the West Indies and be EVENTUALLY headed by "Europeanised" African Slaves (although earlier on they would keep most of their native traditions and be Europeanised by the 1600s).

Or I could be ULTRA ASB and do ALL of EVERYONES ideas in ONE timeline.
 
Last edited:
Maybe have some way in which European colonization of the Americas is more similar in its style to Greek colonization? Meaning, a group of citizens band together to form a new settlement overseas, with some support from their homeland. Of course, for that you'd need Europe itself to be fractured to city-states or to small statelets, and that by itself might butterfly away the discovery of the Americas.

maybe if Columbus or whoever is funded by one of the Italian city-states? that could set some precedent
 
maybe if Columbus or whoever is funded by one of the Italian city-states? that could set some precedent

I believe this is possible, genoa and Florence with having the need and or the capacity to fund this. Genoa would change its focuses westward due to its loss to Venice instead of maintaining its eastern posts in otl.

Florence was the center of all the best minds in Europe at this time. I don't see why they can't go to Americas or towards south Africa before Spain and Portugal.
 
I believe this is possible, genoa and Florence with having the need and or the capacity to fund this. Genoa would change its focuses westward due to its loss to Venice instead of maintaining its eastern posts in otl.

Florence was the center of all the best minds in Europe at this time. I don't see why they can't go to Americas or towards south Africa before Spain and Portugal.
I don't think that Florence could do that alone. But after the defeat of Pisa at the hands of Genoa, Pisa was sold to Florence, so a joint operation of Florence funds and Pisa knowledge of the sea may have succeded in establishing an overseas colony of some sort.
 
Make Lope de Aguirre less "Cannibal" and more "Hannibal" and you have your man.
For someone with a larger powerbase, Gonzalo Pizarro (brother of Francisco) tried to do exactly that. He defeated the first governor, but lost to the second. The problem is that any state worth declaring independence would also be large enough that Spain (or whoever) wouldn't just let it go and would keep trying to retake it. The European population just isn't large enough yet to permanently repel such an attempt.

You're probably better off with runaways establishing a settlement somewhere in the interior; e.g. an indentured servant equivalent of the Quilombos. It won't last forever, but it could survive for quite some time just by being more trouble to subdue than it's worth.
 
I have started my timeline, it is called Vuelo de La Navidad, it is going to incorporate multiple things from your ideas. The PoD is that Diego de Arana wins against the Taíno natives and flees La Navidad before any further harm can come to the settlers. They settle approximately the Turks and Caicos Islands (I think). This timeline may or may not include: African Shipwreck states, rogue governors, EVEN MORE balkanised Caribbean (except ITL it looks more orderly, Andalusian states, different imperialism, and for all you Byzantophiles there will be an empire in exile under the remaining Palaigolos.
 
Last edited:
Montserrat was briefly run by a group of Irish settlers.

wikipedia said:
The island came under English control in 1632[8] when anti-Catholic violence in Nevis forced a group of Irish transported from Ireland as slaves, to settle in Montserrat. A neo-feudal colony developed amongst the "redlegs".

It wasn't really taken under English control until some point during the Civil War/Commonwealth period, IIRC, so if you can somehow avert those events maybe you could have England decide to tolerate it as a [small] outlet for Irish emigration?
 
Top