Plausibility Check: Franco-Polish Invasion of Germany (1935/6)

Is this even possible? I for one think that the Germans could've been crushed had they been invaded this early. Any thoughts?
 
Is this even possible? I for one think that the Germans could've been crushed had they been invaded this early. Any thoughts?
If The French had Jumped on Germany with Both Feet When Hitler Invaded The Rhineland, it would have been a Cake Walk ...

The Germans had just Finished The Expansion of The Wehrmacht, And didn't have an Army Worthy of The Name ...

In Co-Ordination with The Poles; Well, that's just One of History's Lil' Missed Opportunities!

:eek:
 
In Co-Ordination with The Poles; Well, that's just One of History's Lil' Missed Opportunities!

:eek:

Yeah, though nobody would know it, since by that time nazis didn`t manage to commit their worst atrocities. Poland and France would be perceived as warmongering badboys, while Germany would be a poor victim. Maybe rise of communists in Germany after nazi failure?
 

The Vulture

Banned
Germany loses badly. Poland and France are both censured by the League of Nations for invading a "demilitarized" country. Hitler, appearing to be incompetent (for all his big talk, he got steamrolled upon making a grab for the Rhineland), is mustered out of power. Not sure if the NSDAP loses all credibility or just some.

Maybe later on down the line, Stalin does something and causes a WWII.
 

Paul MacQ

Donor
And interesting What If, Germany gets steamrolled. If you can find cause for a still war weary France to do this,

Expect East Prussia to become a Polish Protectorate

Stalin in the years to come without a Germany to keep him in check would still not want the nightmare of a united Europe against him.

Germany would last weeks. France might see some hard fighting but is in a situation of having a fast easy won war, so unlike the Nightmare of 1914-18 might make a change of opinion at home about being primitive

Italy now has to behave, or have head handed to it on plate.

Also Spain a proactive France and no German intervention. Do not see Franco having much chance here and Italy will be allot wearier of helping.

Would be nice looking back at stopping what was a horrible time in History.

Poles will also get big egos and might get themselves in Trouble because of it.

I do not expect a Russian Grab for Baltic states or Finland. Without a War with the West vs Germany to distract things

Why do the Germans plant Trees on the side of the Roads? So the French can march in the shade.

But you will need a real big kick in the ass for France to go to war.
 
There is near zero chance of it occuring. Look at Frances diplomatic actions in the 30's and their own politcal situation. Plus from the UK's point of view few outside of Churchill had any interest in picking a fight with Hitler over his actions.

Plus if France and Poland look like they will actually do something about it I figure its a much better than even chance that German army will revolt and remove Hitler.

Michael
 
I think that it would need an ASB to start a full-size war at this point. However the French just need to have a better intelligence in the Ruhr area they would reoccupy it (they just need to know that the German military units are not well equipped, not too well organized and little in numbers - later German sources said that the plans in case of any military reaction by France were to withdraw immediately). Poland was actually more aggressive in this case.
Result: possibly re-issue of the 1923 Ruhrkampf which sends Germany for the second time in 15 years into state bancruptcy, immense internal turmoil of the early 1930s returns with a vengeance, NSDAP is seen by German population as just another inept government, Stalin jumps on the opportunity and supports whatever is left of KPD. Many-sided civil war ensues.
Poland cannot miss out on the opportunity and grabs some German territory, while supporting some of the fractions in the civil war (whom???). SU supports the communists, France will probably offer some lukewarm support to the social democrats if they have an own fraction in the war. Italy will surely support NSDAP and simultaneously grab parts of Austria (they have planned an invasion of Tirol up to 1938).
I see however that with Italy spending ressources supporting Nazis in German civil war instead of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy supporting Franco may well lead to a different outcome in the Spanish civil war.
 
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Germany would be soundly defeated, Hitler's regime weakened - but I do not see a civil war after three years of "Gleichschaltung". The Nazis grip on power was quite firm at this point of time already.

The Franco-Polish Entente would have to march on Berlin to finish it. Would they be ready to do that?

What would their war-aim be there? Regime-change? Of what kind? Annexations? Careve-up? I can only see them entering a quagmire.

German sentiment would become even more revanchist against France and Poland in such a case - not that it would harm them worse than what actually happened in 1939/45.

Less hard to imagine would be French action to make clear that the Rhineland is to remain demilitarized . As others expressed, this would be easy to do. Without alienating the international public, France could demand that Germany would adhere to Versailles (i.e. disarm again), until then the Rhineland would be French-occupied again.

Such an action would throw the whole foreign policy of "tearing apart the treaty of Versailles" into disarray. How Hitler, the German Government, the German Army would react to that is totally unfathomable to me.
 
The Franco-Polish Entente would have to march on Berlin to finish it. Would they be ready to do that?

What would their war-aim be there? Regime-change? Of what kind? Annexations? Careve-up? I can only see them entering a quagmire.
Maybe an early POD could change France enough to do this by 1935/6, and I'm pretty sure the Polish would go all the way. As for war aims, I think the main one would be that Germany remain demilitarized. I cannot see any annexations, though I am not well versed in history from about 1933-1937.

Since everyone seems to think the British wouldn't stand for this, could this possibly end up with a British-Italian-German Axis VS a Franco-Polish Entente? Now that sounds interesting.
 
I cannot see any annexations, though I am not well versed in history from about 1933-1937.

The Poles certainly would have had their ideas about annexing the whole of Upper Silesia and the Southern parts of East Prussia. If they managed to go to Berlin - they would have wanted territorial rewards.

France probably burned her fingers enough when meddling with the left bank of the Rhine. Maybe the status of the Saar region would be re-negotiated in some ways. But I imagine France really going for its own safety i.e. re-demilitarization.

Since everyone seems to think the British wouldn't stand for this, could this possibly end up with a British-Italian-German Axis VS a Franco-Polish Entente? Now that sounds interesting.

I can only imagine this if Germany ends up a less authoritarian state after this war - maybe as a monarchy. Italy might just grab Abbessinia without too much hassle while the world stares at the German war, thus remain respectable for a little longer.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Probable outcome; if France and Poland jump on Germany due to the Rhineland, the German military would soon realize they're going to lose. hitler would quickly be disposed, and the German army would ask for terms. France would probably not want to impose harder terms, just make sure Germany is still bound to Versailles. the Poles might want some birder revisions, but would be dependent on support from France.
 
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