Plausibility Check: European equivalent to Japanese ninjas

[Chiropteroid]

While Medieval Europe had its knights and chivalry, Feudal Japan had its samurai and bushido (And on both occasions these romanticized soldier classes were in fact little more than over-glorified brutes). But in addition Japan had another type of soldier not seen in Europe: Ninja (or shinobi, as was the historically correct term).

This raised two questions for me.

1. Why were Ninjas unique to Japan?

2. How plausible would it have been for a similar class of saboteurs, mercenaries and covert agents to have been born in Medieval Europe?

What do you think?

 

[ennobee]

I guess the Legend of Robin Hood and his Merry Men has often been played up as a band of stealthy resistance fighters similar to the Ninja. Of course they did not have those fancy strange weapons like a nunchuck or a blowpipe, okay, they had the longbow and quarterstaff. But those were pretty common household weapons you could train in the open with.

 

[bbctol]

Ninja were useful in a context of many small-scale feuding warlords hiring mercenaries to make temporary gains. Closest European setting in which they'd be useful is probably 13th-15th century Italy; assassination wasn't uncommon, I can certainly see some noble families or guild leaders hiring assassins often enough for it to pass into pop culture centuries later.

 

[Deleted member 123260]

The Middle East had the Hashashins.

 

[Brodydaboss]

The Middle East had the Hashashins.

That's True, maybe we could have a christian equivalent with a sect like the hussites or cathars.

 

[Anawrahta]

The Middle East had the Hashashins.

While Medieval Europe had its knights and chivalry, Feudal Japan had its samurai and bushido (And on both occasions these romanticized soldier classes were in fact little more than over-glorified brutes). But in addition Japan had another type of soldier not seen in Europe: Ninja (or shinobi, as was the historically correct term).

This raised two questions for me.

1. Why were Ninjas unique to Japan?

2. How plausible would it have been for a similar class of saboteurs, mercenaries and covert agents to have been born in Medieval Europe?

What do you think?

Japan had arguably a more sophisticated form of feudalism with highly detailed cadastral surveys with a high population density due to Wet-rice production. Japan was a former centralized Sinic state whereas Latin Europe had a origins from Carolingian partition and had lower pop.density due to Wheat/Rye cultivation. As others have said Italy would be best candidate due to high pop. density and rice cultivation, and a more developed form of feudalism emerging out of a dysfunctional state would be required. One option is the HRE not invading Italy and Middle Francia surviving. Middle Francia becomes wealthy and is one of the most sophisticated societies in europe. It eventually decentralizes into various domains in with the Po valley becoming densely populated due to earlier rice cultivation at the same time more fractious. The manorial class utilize condottieri(different from OTL due to specialization in stealth, assasination, sabotage, espionage rather than mercenary) in a "violent" cold water between Papist and Royalist factions in the unstable Po valley.

 

[stevej713]

Europe certainly did have mercenaries, spies, saboteurs, and sappers during its long history. They just weren't all lumped into the same category and romanticized like ninjas were. Japan was highly ritualistic and hierarchical, thus designating a place in society for "Ninjas" that was mostly imaginary, but also acted as a reaction to the restrictive conduct that was expected of Samurai. A ninja could be anyone who participated in asymmetric wartime activities, similar to a Commando or terrorist. For example, a peasant could be hired to commit arson and be considered a ninja. Similarly, a highly trained aristocrat could infiltrate a castle and covertly sabotage it over a period of time, and be considered a ninja as well. Folklore and pop culture proceeded to turn ninjas into black-robed super humans.

 

[BBadolato]

While Medieval Europe had its knights and chivalry, Feudal Japan had its samurai and bushido (And on both occasions these romanticized soldier classes were in fact little more than over-glorified brutes). But in addition Japan had another type of soldier not seen in Europe: Ninja (or shinobi, as was the historically correct term).

This raised two questions for me.

1. Why were Ninjas unique to Japan?

2. How plausible would it have been for a similar class of saboteurs, mercenaries and covert agents to have been born in Medieval Europe?

What do you think?

Ninja were basically irregular warriors used for a variety of situations, which could include samurai as well. Shinobi basically came about as the need for better spies and infiltrators, in a land where warfare often depended on fighting at or near fortified positions and local landmarks. China and Korea depending on the period had to deal with raiders from the steppes, rival Chinese states in the case of China or pirates, with nowhere near as must near-constant conflict.

In the Sengoku period, you needed information on enemy movements, headquarters, infiltrating castles and assassination. Also, a fair deal of it was rooted in aspects of Sun Tzu's Art of War. So I'm not sure if Europe really has a complex enough military tradition at least until the early or late 1400s for some of special operations unit to be viable. But I am going off the assumption Feudal Europe really did not have much in way of organized warfare comparable to China save maybe the Italian city-states? If anyone can prove otherwise perhaps with the right conditions a similar phenomenon can emerge.

 

[NiGHTS]

Assassin's Creed/James Bond? I'd say those are the European equivalents of Ninjas in pop culture.

Ninjas are basically just spies /assassins with a special name. And who are stereotypes as wearing black clothing, when they really dressed like regular people.

 

[TRH]

Assassin's Creed/James Bond? I'd say those are the European equivalents of Ninjas in pop culture.

James Bond is just one (fictional) guy, though, and the Assassins are (again fictionally) appropriating from a non-Western order. What we're asking about is essentially some European equivalent to the Hashashin in terms of notoriety and mystique that actually exists in the ATL. Maybe something could spring up in Renaissance Italy? That does seem like the right kind of environment not only for organized spying, sabotage and assassination, but also for its romanticization.

 

[NiGHTS]

James Bond is just one (fictional) guy, though, and the Assassins are (again fictionally) appropriating from a non-Western order. What we're asking about is essentially some European equivalent to the Hashashin in terms of notoriety and mystique that actually exists in the ATL. Maybe something could spring up in Renaissance Italy? That does seem like the right kind of environment not only for organized spying, sabotage and assassination, but also for its romanticization.

What I meant by James Bond are Secret Agents/Spies. He's not the only one, but is the most famous. They practically do the same thing as what Ninjas are thought to do.

 

[TRH]

What I meant by James Bond are Secret Agents/Spies. He's not the only one, but is the most famous. They practically do the same thing as what Ninjas are thought to do.

You may have a point there, actually. Still, the OP asked about a medieval equivalent.

 

[Arkenfolm]

Reminds me how Rome Total War featured Roman ninjas among its many historical inaccuracies in the name of fun. I can't remember what they were called (like many fantastic elements in RTW they were vaguely based on an actual organization/troop type in Ancient Rome), but they were lightly armed troops wearing robes with the ability to hide in any terrain.

So maybe have this sort of thing vaguely exist IRL, like in the Roman Republic (as assassins, saboteurs, etc.), and then have the exaggeration of it (like RTW) be worked into culture and folklore by the Late Empire and then during the Renaissance have them serve as a model for other sorts of assassins, spies, saboteurs who might ceremonially wear a certain costume or uniform when in the service of their masters which then becomes what pop culture thinks they wore all the time when actually doing whatever ridiculous superhuman feats they're attributed to doing.

 

[A Most Sovereign Lady]

Assassins, generally speaking, the word may be a loan-word these days but the act of someone being really good at killing people and gathering information while being unknown while doing it is very very old and a world-wide phenomena.

 

[Fabius Maximus]

So basically the OP's asking for a real-life version of the Ankh Morpork Guild of Assassins?

Reminds me how Rome Total War featured Roman ninjas among its many historical inaccuracies in the name of fun. I can't remember what they were called (like many fantastic elements in RTW they were vaguely based on an actual organization/troop type in Ancient Rome), but they were lightly armed troops wearing robes with the ability to hide in any terrain.

I believe you're thinking of the Arcani.

 

[Atterdag]

Maybe a kind of Christian Monastic Order focused on murdering high-ranking Turks and Muslims? It could be based in the mountains of the Balkans and recieve support both from Catholics and Orthodox.

 

[Oxander]

Jesters.

 

[Petros >Peter Fergus<]

Sort of?

 

[Chris Triangle]

Assassin's Creed/James Bond? I'd say those are the European equivalents of Ninjas in pop culture.

Ninjas are basically just spies /assassins with a special name. And who are stereotypes as wearing black clothing, when they really dressed like regular people.

How about Robin Hood?

 

[NiGHTS]

How about Robin Hood?

I don't know if he ever goes out actively kill and spy on people. And I don't imagine that he's ever hired by someone.