Plausibility Check: Domesticated Marine animals

[Dargonaut]

Is it possible for any civilization to domesticate a marine species for their benefit. The US Navy has multiple uses for Dolphins and Seals, mainly for marine warfare. How would such a civilization make use of these new species and what kind of impact could it have.

This may belong in ASB but there is something about Viking dolphins that sounds very appealing.

 

[Thanksforallthefish]

Dolphins have been observed to help fishermen in the Brazilian coast. It happens in Myanmar too.

The thing about marine mammals is not only that they live in water, of course, but that true domestication implies generations of selective breeding. And that's hard, if not impossible, because it's very hard and expensive to maintain them in captivity, and also their migration patterns and social structures do not allow for that. Imagine trying to breed, let's be fun here, sealions, where males spent most of their lives building a harem (not leaving it even for food during mating season) and females either fishing or raising/protecting their offspring. They also can spend whole months in the open ocean. Not exactly a reliable pet. You could train individuals for specific tasks like the US navy did, but that's time consuming for a pre-industrial civilization ('there goes Erik again with his stupid sealions instead of fishing!') and far from domestication.

I suppose you could 'shepherd' whales and other cetaceans. But once you kill them (you can't exactly milk or shear whales), they will quickly go away, and it's the same thing as hunting; not sustainable in time. Also, whales have long reproductive cycles. At a first look, I thought sirenians like the extinct sea cow and the dugong might have been 'shepherd' but their reproductive cycles are even longer than whales, and their population isn't in the best shape (the sea cows went extinct after mere decades of hunting. They also lived in remote Kamchatka. Dugongs and Manatees are also endangered).

Dolphins being friends with fishermen and sailors is a well-known trope, and I imagine it does not come from pure fantasy, as seen above. They might be little bastards, but they are smart and curious, and they definitively have reasons to be friendly to the big floating fish full of more fishes.

 

[Dargonaut]

Dolphins have been observed to help fishermen in the Brazilian coast. It happens in Myanmar too.

The thing about marine mammals is not only that they live in water, of course, but that true domestication implies generations of selective breeding. And that's hard, if not impossible, because it's very hard and expensive to maintain them in captivity, and also their migration patterns and social structures do not allow for that. Imagine trying to breed, let's be fun here, sealions, where males spent most of their lives building a harem (not leaving it even for food during mating season) and females either fishing or raising/protecting their offspring. They also can spend whole months in the open ocean. Not exactly a reliable pet. You could train individuals for specific tasks like the US navy did, but that's time consuming for a pre-industrial civilization ('there goes Erik again with his stupid sealions instead of fishing!') and far from domestication.

I suppose you could 'shepherd' whales and other cetaceans. But once you kill them (you can't exactly milk or shear whales), they will quickly go away, and it's the same thing as hunting; not sustainable in time. Also, whales have long reproductive cycles. At a first look, I thought sirenians like the extinct sea cow and the dugong might have been 'shepherd' but their reproductive cycles are even longer than whales, and their population isn't in the best shape (the sea cows went extinct after mere decades of hunting. They also lived in remote Kamchatka. Dugongs and Manatees are also endangered).

Dolphins helping fishermen and sailors is a well-known trope, and I imagine it does not come from pure fantasy. They might be little bastards, but they are smart and curious, and they definitively have reasons to be friendly to the big floating fish full of more fishes.

Thanks for the articles they are really neat!

There is a popular theory that dogs had domesticated themselves by entering a symbiotic relationship with humans and changing genetically to serve their new lifestyles could this work for Dolphins.

 

[Thanksforallthefish]

Thanks for the articles they are really neat!

There is a popular theory that dogs had domesticated themselves by entering a symbiotic relationship with humans and changing genetically to serve their new lifestyles could this work for Dolphins.

Maybe, but keep in mind that dogs have a history with humans stretching, according to the higher-end estimates, to 50.000 years ago, with the apparition of *modern* humans. No other domesticate comes even close to the history we have with dogs; we have domesticated many species since then, but dogs are unique in the degree of co-evolution we share.

Any culture that truly domesticates dolphins or lives in a permanent symbiotic relationship with them would have to be almost completely seafaring and it would be a process that takes thousands of years. They are social enough, but not so far removed, that I think it's possible. But it would be extremely hard, and the product of a culture almost unrecognizable to us.

It's extremely hard to take dolphin cubs and raise them. It would be as much as a decision by dolphins as by humans. And breeding and training would be almost impossible.

My guess is that they would act a lot like cats.

 

[John7755 يوحنا]

@Thanksforallthefish An idea, you mentioned the duration for pregnancies for manatee earlier. I assume this is regarding their inability to be used for efficient meat producers or cattle. However, a different proposal, what would be the plausibility of a population of humans centered around various tight towns in dense swamps or dispersed islands, to use manatee for a form of limited low traffic mount? So, a mount and as a city develops, a form of unique taxi with the driver carrying an oar and a form of harness around the creature resembling a circle where the passenger sits with various items.

 

[water123]

Imo it would be a lot easier for seabirds to be domesticated since at least you can keep a seabird in a cage while aquatic and especially marine animals would have to be somehow confined which would be difficult. I agree that manatees would be one of the easier species to domesticate since they are really nonagressive and friendly, would live near the coastline, actually could be put to use either as food (apparently Stellar's sea cow [probably butchered the spelling] was delicious to the point that it was hunted pretty thoroughly by sailors as soon as it was as discovered) or other work, could be fed and raised rather simply compared to a dolphin or shark, and overall would be easier than something else.

I feel like the biggest hurdle is going to be the fact that overall fishing is a lot easier than trying to domesticate a marine animal.

 

[Dargonaut]

How about a fishing culture based around the dolphin. A symbiotic relationship forms over fishing, dolphins shepherd the fish and humans use large nets to catch 'em all. Deep sea fishing would be a lot easier with dolphin sonar.

 

[Dargonaut]

Maybe, but keep in mind that dogs have a history with humans stretching, according to the higher-end estimates, to 50.000 years ago, with the apparition of *modern* humans. No other domesticate comes even close to the history we have with dogs; we have domesticated many species since then, but dogs are unique in the degree of co-evolution we share.

Any culture that truly domesticates dolphins or lives in a permanent symbiotic relationship with them would have to be almost completely seafaring and it would be a process that takes thousands of years. They are social enough, but not so far removed, that I think it's possible. But it would be extremely hard, and the product of a culture almost unrecognizable to us.

It's extremely hard to take dolphin cubs and raise them. It would be as much as a decision by dolphins as by humans. And breeding and training would be almost impossible.

My guess is that they would act a lot like cats.

Well I found on Wikipedia, that the upper limit isn't really a contender for the time dogs were fully domesticated, rather it is the first time we saw something that looks like a dog. Cats were domesticated in a much shorter time frame.

Isn't there a culture that is seafaring and has a history of working with the sea. Y'know, the Polynesian peoples.

Selective breeding would be very difficult, but when the dolphins have trust in the humans, training shouldn't be too hard. The uses of dolphins would coincide with abilities they already have.

I don't think they are going to be like cats, independent sure but dolphins would be more engaged than the average cat. I mean if we can already train dolphins to do tricks, than a domesticated species should be even easier to train.

 

[wtw]

You mean besides fish and sea birds?

 

[Dargonaut]

You mean besides fish and sea birds?

Well, yeah

 

[TC9078]

How about a fishing culture based around the dolphin. A symbiotic relationship forms over fishing, dolphins shepherd the fish and humans use large nets to catch 'em all. Deep sea fishing would be a lot easier with dolphin sonar.

That's pretty much what they do in Laguna. The dolphins herd the fish into the shore, and signal the fishermen when to throw their nets. Whatever fish they don't catch are panicked and going away from their school. Easy pickings for the dolphins.

 

[mosodake]

Humans have been farming oysters since at least Roman times. I imagine other bivalves can be/have been domesticated as well. Shrimp too.

 

[Alex Zetsu]

A bit cheating but...

Given the confines of the OP, goldfish count. Entertaining people is a service. The Emperor's entertainment is a very valuable service, at least if you look at what they do pay for musicians. Since the objective of the civilization is to serve the celestial Emperor, goldfish that can keep the Emperor entertained for 1 hour every week is useful.

 

[Hawkeye]

Maybe, but keep in mind that dogs have a history with humans stretching, according to the higher-end estimates, to 50.000 years ago, with the apparition of *modern* humans. No other domesticate comes even close to the history we have with dogs; we have domesticated many species since then, but dogs are unique in the degree of co-evolution we share.

Any culture that truly domesticates dolphins or lives in a permanent symbiotic relationship with them would have to be almost completely seafaring and it would be a process that takes thousands of years. They are social enough, but not so far removed, that I think it's possible. But it would be extremely hard, and the product of a culture almost unrecognizable to us.

It's extremely hard to take dolphin cubs and raise them. It would be as much as a decision by dolphins as by humans. And breeding and training would be almost impossible.

My guess is that they would act a lot like cats.

I remember watching a YouTube video that described ancient Venus once had shallow oceans that you had to travel for miles to fully submerge yourself. Maybe this would be an ideal environment for this to happen? I know this ventures into ASB territory but I thought it would be a cool idea for worldbuilding.

 

[CountPeter]

So a bit of a crazy possibility, but not entirely impossible given enough time.

So there are dogs which have been bred for the sea such as the Portuguese water dog, to the point where they actually have webbed feet. Given a much older effort to breed dogs for assisting fishermen (or perhaps a more concentrated effort), you could get a semi-aquatic mammal which would be domesticated.

Primarily, water dogs are used to herd fish towards nets in a similar fashion to dolphins. Dogs can also swim pretty quickly even when less adapted (I actually used to swim with dogs a fair way out from the coast every weekend when I was a teenager), and they are excellent for returning the kind of nets that you leave out and may have a hard time rowing to by yourself (or swimming too if you are not a confident swimmer).