Plausibility Check: British/Russian/German Alliance?

Any ideas on how this could work itself out by the early-mid twentieth century? They were all "related" so to the modern mind it doesn't seem like a stretch, however, politics in Europe at the time were much more complex and convoluted than that, I know...

I'm sure the POD would have to be pre-1900, but I put it here because it's when most of the resulting action would occur.

How is this plausible (if it is) and what are some potential results?
 
The only way I can see this working is if the formation of Germany occurs in a different way, without a Franco-Prussian War and with Austria remaining slightly stronger, thus leading to a Franco-Austrian Alliance.

The natural move for Germany would then be to ally with Russia against Austria, and we could then have a failure of the Anglo-French detente and instead an Anglo-German alliance.
 
The only way I can see this working is if the formation of Germany occurs in a different way, without a Franco-Prussian War and with Austria remaining slightly stronger, thus leading to a Franco-Austrian Alliance.

The natural move for Germany would then be to ally with Russia against Austria, and we could then have a failure of the Anglo-French detente and instead an Anglo-German alliance.

Well that makes it sound rather simple...

How would Germany unify without the Franco-Prussian War?

A Franco-Austrian alliance sounds interesting, if a little difficult.

At any rate, what are the long term effects of such an alliance?
 
That's a good POD - how can Austria win the Austro-Prussian War, or how can it be avoided?

During the latter half of the 19th Century, France and Britain come to blows in varying colonial theatres and eventually an unfixable schism separates them. Austria begins to assert itself in the Balkans, and Russia feels like its sphere of influence is being tampered with, so allies with Prussia/Germany, which also begins to gravitate towards Britain.

Not sure how German Unification can fit into it though.
 
That's a good POD - how can Austria win the Austro-Prussian War, or how can it be avoided?

During the latter half of the 19th Century, France and Britain come to blows in varying colonial theatres and eventually an unfixable schism separates them. Austria begins to assert itself in the Balkans, and Russia feels like its sphere of influence is being tampered with, so allies with Prussia/Germany, which also begins to gravitate towards Britain.

Not sure how German Unification can fit into it though.

Austria can't win if you want a Germany anything like OTL. Possibly a less decisive victory but what Alex was saying was the war with France doesn't occur.

You still have the problem that the Franco-Austrian alliance is very likely to be a lot weaker than the Russo-German one, even if southern Germany [Baden to Bavaria] ends up with Austria rather than Prussia. Also this naturally puts Italy in the German camp as well. Hence I would say, combining Anglo-Russia tensions and the balance of power issues that Britain would tend to side more with the Franco-Austrians.

I can see Britain allied with Germany and even possibly with Russia under the right circumstances. However it would take something very odd for her to be allies with both unless 'Germany' is a hell of a lot weaker than OTL. [Unless you somehow manage to drag the US into the Franco-Austrian bloc and given US views on alliances that is pretty much ASB at this time].
 
It was far more natural for Britain to be an ally of Germany rather than France given the long and turbulent history of Anglo-French relations.

At the end of the 19th Century Britain was happy to remain aloof from the rest of the major powers until the Fashoda incident almost led to the possiblility of war with a major power on her own, and the Germans deciding to build a large navy to rival the RN.

Perhaps if the Fashoda incident played out as it did, but instead of building up the Kreigsmarine the Germans concentrate on their land forces and look to an alliance with Britain for their naval needs, Britain in turn looking to Germany as a strong land force on the continent.

As for Russia, well it's hard to imagine Britain and Russia being allies if not to oppose Germany at this time, especially given the rivalries between the two great powers throughout asia.
 
In my timeline, during the Great War thier is eventually an alliance of the USA, UK, Russia, and the North German Confederation against Imperial France, Austria-Hungry, the south German states, and the Ottoman Empire.
 
Simple. Bismarck, one way or another, stays in charge of foreign policy. Before Wilhelm II methodically destroyed German relations with Britain and Russia, they were allies, or at least friendly neutrals. Germany and Prussia had a long history of close relations with both countries; the system that emerged shortly before WWI was very much a historical aberration.
 
Well it looks like it's a lot more possible than I had first imagined. Thanks everyone for your suggestions and links.

Since we have a lot of options for how this could occur, what are the results in the long and short term of such an alliance?
 
I think there'd be another power in Europe to balance things out for such an alliance to even be warranted. France and Austria are fine, but I think a third player is needed to make things truly equal. Whether such a third power is a larger Poland, Sweden, or Balkan state, is up to everyone else to decide which one is most plausible.
 
Since we have a lot of options for how this could occur, what are the results in the long and short term of such an alliance?

The short term result is that the Great War is impossible. Germany avoids conflict with Britain and Russia; the latter two squabble a bit over spheres of influence in Persia and perhaps China, but nothing worthy of warfare. Austria struggles to retain its influence in central Europe, but, as Bismarck intended, is more a servant of Germany than an ally. Lacking German support, Austria turns to the dying Ottoman Empire as an ally against Russia - unlike the historical Kaiser, Bismarck wisely scorns any obligations to the Sick Man of Europe. France courts Austria and Turkey, with the intention of weakening Italy's position in Africa, but the balance of power overwhelmingly lies with the Anglo/Russo/German Entente. Each of the three greatest of the Great Powers is thus free to pursue its own key goals: England its colonies, Prussia its industries, Russia its sway in Asia. America and France follow their own idiosyncratic paths.

The long term results of such a dramatic change are potentially enormous - and all of it hinged on a single case of throat cancer.
 
One idea I had which could result in this requires a PoD in the early 19th century: An Act of Union bringing Hanover into the United Kingdom, during the reign of George III or IV, or William IV. British Hanover then becomes the hegemon of the German Confederation, instead of Prussia.

Not terribly fun to be France there, no?
 
One idea I had which could result in this requires a PoD in the early 19th century: An Act of Union bringing Hanover into the United Kingdom, during the reign of George III or IV, or William IV. British Hanover then becomes the hegemon of the German Confederation, instead of Prussia.

Not terribly fun to be France there, no?

I had thought of that, but I'm not sure Prussia would put up with anything like that...

And no, France would be rather supremely effed.
 
I had thought of that, but I'm not sure Prussia would put up with anything like that...
Might require an even earlier PoD, so that Prussia is less powerful, or Otto von Bismark is unavailable to the Prussians. Having his parents move to Hanover, so he eventually becomes Prime Minister of the UK, would be interesting, but not necessarily plausible.
 
Simple. Bismarck, one way or another, stays in charge of foreign policy. Before Wilhelm II methodically destroyed German relations with Britain and Russia, they were allies, or at least friendly neutrals. Germany and Prussia had a long history of close relations with both countries; the system that emerged shortly before WWI was very much a historical aberration.
This does make me wonder what happens to France. Didn't she ally with Russia as a balance against Germany?

If this alliance persists into 1895-7, it has very interesting butterflies re Japan. To begin with, no Dreibund, so no loss of territory Japan feels entitled to, so much less anti-European bitterness. Possibly no Russo-Japanese War in 1904. Probably the Anglo-Japanese Treaty is renewed, so much less chance of Pacific War.:cool::cool: IDK if there'd still be the push for the 21 Demands, or if the Colonels in the Kwantung Army would still go a bit nuts. (Hirohito would likely not rein them in so long as he figured he could get something out of it, just as OTL.:rolleyes:)
 
Top