Plausibility Check: Austrian colonies?

"Europe had empires, the Ottoman Empire, famous for furniture for some reason. The Austrian-Hungarian Empire, famous for F-all, all they did was collapse like a flan in a cupbard. The German Empire, very Prussian, build von (said with accent) empire, then celebrate with a WORLD WAR, and lose the whole empire" ---Eddie Izzard

"We STOLE countries, with the cunning use of Flags!" ---Eddie Izzard :D
 
What we need is something like the Belgian model- a random European monarchy randomly gets colonies due to diplomatic reasons. However, hopefully they wouldn't be as bad as the Belgians acted.
 
What we need is something like the Belgian model- a random European monarchy randomly gets colonies due to diplomatic reasons.


I think Austria is too much of a power for that to easily happen. After all, Leopold/Belgium got the Congo (and the US the Philippines) because none of the European powers either wanted to see another European power get the Congo or wanted to engage in the massive amount of diplomatic horse trading a European power getting the Congo would entail.

A diplomatic award could happen, it just wouldn't be easy and it would result in a lot of other changes.

However, hopefully they wouldn't be as bad as the Belgians acted.

While I never try to underestimate the perversity of human nature, someone would be hard pressed to act worse than Leopold's Merry Band of Ghouls did.
 
How did belgium get colonies? :confused: I've never read anything about that.


You're kidding, right?

You've never heard about King Leopold, his personal possession of the Congo, the horrors unleashed by his employees in search of rubber and ivory, the universal disgust over his treatment of the natives (in the 19th Century!), the public campaign to shut the operation down, how he dodged any responsibility by basically blackmailed the Belgian government into buying him out, or how Belgium kept most of his policies in place albeit at a much lower level of visibility?
 

Fenlander

Banned
How did belgium get colonies? :confused: I've never read anything about that.

As the above poster said, it was mostly a compromise candidate - none of the main Imperial powers wanted to see one of the others get it, so the Belgians picked it up through "better him than you".
 
I've heard that they were very cruel to the local inhabitants of their colony, but not actually how they aquired the territory.
 
As the above poster said, it was mostly a compromise candidate - none of the main Imperial powers wanted to see one of the others get it, so the Belgians picked it up through "better him than you".
Leopold was setting up a society for the better treatment of Africans. He tried to get people to think of him as a humanitarian.
 
Actually based on the book I'm currently reading, while Britain and France didn't like the idea of Austria operating a colonial empire out of the Austrian Netherlands, the real thing stopping it was the Dutch Republic. Operating a trade company out of the Austrian Netherlands was dependent on the Scheldt River, and its mouth was in Dutch territory. Every time it looked as though Antwerp might overtake Amsterdam as a trade centre, the Dutch promptly shut the river mouth to stop the Flemings trading.

So a decent POD (though not allowed by the post-1815 OP) would be for the Austrian Netherlands to acquire the mouth of the Scheldt from the Dutch in one of the earlier eighteenth century wars.

Indeed, the Treaty of London did actually require just a suspension, I believe, but then the UK demanded that the Company be completely closed down. And since the Company was based in Ostend, it didnt require the Scheldt mouth to operate. See my TL for further details, in which (plug, etc.) the Ostend Company is revived, which in turn can lead to colonie. Perhaps it can inspire someone to get ideas about Austrian colonies.
 
To bad this is post-1815, tho it may work, the Austrians apparently turned down the acquisition of the island of Corfu at negotiations that lead to the Treaty of Vienna.
 
An English adventurer in Autrian service called William Bolts established a colony in Delagoa Bay (southern Mozambique) in 1778, which was apparently doing pretty well until the Portuguese expelled them in 1781. Either make the Portuguese action fail somehow or find some way for Austria to demand it back at the Congress of Vienna (for your 1815 POD) and there you go - Austrian Mozambique...
 
To bad this is post-1815, tho it may work, the Austrians apparently turned down the acquisition of the island of Corfu at negotiations that lead to the Treaty of Vienna.


Very interesting and it triggered a dusty memory too...

Checking with Wiki (I know, I know) at the Congress of Vienna Britain was granted an "amical protectorate" over seven islands in the Ionian Sea Napoleonic France had organized into something called the Septinsular Republic. Britain installed a high commissioner, wrote a constitution, and renamed the islands - get this - The United States of the Ionian Islands.

Anyway, part of the deal which granted Britain it's protectorate over the islands granted Austria equal commercial rights in the islands.

It would be interesting to learn why Austria turned down Corfu and how that might be changed. Austria controlling some Ionian islands would embroil it in Greek unification/independence in the same Austria's holdings in northern Italy embroiled with unification/independence movements there. Britain handed the islands back to Greece after 50 years as a goodwill gesture to the new Greek king. Whether Austria would do the same is something I can't even guess at.
 
The worst obstacle to a colonial focus for Austria are the unstable conditions inside and around the motherland. Insurgent nationalists against Austrian rule and Russian greed for influence in the territories sliding away from the Ottomans kept Austria(-Hungary) busy.

The best chance for Austrian overseas activities seem to lie in a more successful Emperor Maximilian of Mexico, son to Emperor Franz (starting from 1864).
I don't know whether a Pseudo-Austrian Mexico could lead to better Austrian representation in the Pacific, perhaps in Oceania.

But from a very general point of view, Austria simply fell behind the other powers, in particular Prussia in many aspects during the 19th century; one crucial one being politics. Colonies was a 'hype' in its last decades; and the failure to create colonies was just one symptom of this Austrian retardation.
 
The Novara Expedition of 1857 was sent out to prepare the ground for colonies. The Admirality recognized that with the building of the Suez channel Austria would be in a very favourable position for the East Asia Trade. Trieste was built up, Suez Channel shares were reserved for Austria, and the Suedbahn from Vienna to Trieste was built. The Nicobars (then claimed by Denmark) were planned as a waystation (and, incidentially, a dumping ground for criminals), and there were plans for aquiring harbor rights in China. The scientific part of the mission was no more than an afterthought. The Italian war of 1859 shattered those hopes, and the Austrian part of the Suez shares, which did not sell well in the post-war depression, were gobbled up by the British, which gave them their majority in the company. More support from FJI and a different 1859 war could help in getting Austria some colonies. Or even better- this was Archduke Ferdinand Max' baby, the latter Max of Mexico. Kill of his dullard older brother, make him Emperor, and voila. Him being much more liberal than Franz Josef won't hurt, too.
 
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