Plausibility Check: A Large-Scale Settlement of Russian Peasants in Latvia and Estonia

CaliGuy

Banned
I came up with an idea here:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...-and-estonia-much-more-populous.406185/page-3

Basically, I was wondering if it was possible for a pro-Russification Russian Tsar such as Alexander III to take some of the Baltic Barons' land from them and to settle this land with Russian peasants in an attempt to Russify both Latvia and Estonia. Also, for the record, the Baltic Barons would get compensation for their loss of land in this scenario/TL.

Anyway, any thoughts on this?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Basically, I am talking about having Tsarist Russia do in both Latvia and Estonia what it did in both Kazakhstan and Siberia.
 
Obviously they would have the power to do something like that but mass scale deportations and resettlements of populations was only attempted by the soviets.

Bear in mind many Baltic peasants saw the Russians as a good force that protected them from the Baltic German aristocracy.

This policy would cause mass resentment not seen in the Baltic provinces before so really the question is why would the tsarists want to do this.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Obviously they would have the power to do something like that but mass scale deportations and resettlements of populations was only attempted by the soviets.

Why exactly would deportations be necessary, though? After all, don't both Latvia and Estonia have enough space for a lot of additional people?

Bear in mind many Baltic peasants saw the Russians as a good force that protected them from the Baltic German aristocracy.

How much protection did Russia actually offer them, though?

This policy would cause mass resentment not seen in the Baltic provinces before so really the question is why would the tsarists want to do this.

Would it really cause mass resentment, though? After all, wasn't there enough space in both Latvia and Estonia for a lot of additional people?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
For the record, the only people that I could see being pissed off with this proposal of mine are Latvian and Estonian independence activists (not that Tsarist Russia liked them anyway!) and the Baltic Barons themselves (and possibly some other Russian nobles due to the precedent that this can provide).
 
For the record, the only people that I could see being pissed off with this proposal of mine are Latvian and Estonian independence activists (not that Tsarist Russia liked them anyway!) and the Baltic Barons themselves (and possibly some other Russian nobles due to the precedent that this can provide).

I imagine most of the Latvian and Estonian population will be pissed: from their perspective, it's cool that the barons's estates are being carved up, but surely they - the people who already live and work on those lands - should get most of it? Russia would be making an enemy out of the whole native population, and soon only the small and fragile group of colonists could be considered even remotely loyal.

Of course, just because it's unwise doesn't mean Russia wouldn't do it. Still, it would be wiser to enact a general land reform in favour of the Latvians and Estonians, then - if it's really considered neccessary - "sneak in" a smaller-scale settling of Russians in certain key regions.

The government mentality of the Russian Empire is an obstacle too. It would need to become less concerned with the rights and privileges of the aristocracy, and more concerned with Russian nationalism (specifically: with the kind of nationalism that actually prioritizes your own peasants over someone else's barons).
 
If such thing happened, I bet Latvia and Estonia would be majority Russian if the region stays politically Russian until today.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
I imagine most of the Latvian and Estonian population will be pissed: from their perspective, it's cool that the barons's estates are being carved up, but surely they - the people who already live and work on those lands - should get most of it? Russia would be making an enemy out of the whole native population, and soon only the small and fragile group of colonists could be considered even remotely loyal.

Of course, just because it's unwise doesn't mean Russia wouldn't do it. Still, it would be wiser to enact a general land reform in favour of the Latvians and Estonians, then - if it's really considered neccessary - "sneak in" a smaller-scale settling of Russians in certain key regions.

The government mentality of the Russian Empire is an obstacle too. It would need to become less concerned with the rights and privileges of the aristocracy, and more concerned with Russian nationalism (specifically: with the kind of nationalism that actually prioritizes your own peasants over someone else's barons).
I've got a question--can Russia give a majority of the Baltic Barons' land to ethnic Latvians and Estonians while giving the remainder to ethnic Russian peasants?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
If such thing happened, I bet Latvia and Estonia would be majority Russian if the region stays politically Russian until today.
Completely agreed--after all, having a lot of Russians settle in the countryside and having a lot of additional Russians settle in the cities (as happened in Soviet times in our TL) should probably be enough to make both Latvia and Estonia ethnic Russian-majority.
 
I've got a question--can Russia give a majority of the Baltic Barons' land to ethnic Latvians and Estonians while giving the remainder to ethnic Russian peasants?

Sure, why not. Even in terms of Russification, that would be a much better use of everyone's time than Alexander III's OTL methods. And it would also be beneficial for the Baltic natives.
 
You mean due to them getting a majority of this land, correct?
Could be beneficial on economic terms, technically you could have something damaging to the Latvian/Estonian nation and cuture but beneficial to the farmers´ economic situation.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Could be beneficial on economic terms, technically you could have something damaging to the Latvian/Estonian nation and cuture but beneficial to the farmers´ economic situation.
You mean due to the greater opportunities for trade?
 
As an alternative to a Czarist colonization program is to have the LDPR come to power and procede to genocide the natives and implement their own variant of Generalplan Ost. I'm considering that outcome for my Crisis in the Kremlin sequel. How long do you estimate that it would take for that to be implemented.
 
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