Plausibility Check: A Chinese Expansion Into Siberia and/or Into Central Asia?

CaliGuy

Banned
Was it plausible for China to expand into Siberia and/or into Central Asia with a sufficiently early PoD?

Any thoughts on this?
 
Was it plausible for China to expand into Siberia and/or into Central Asia with a sufficiently early PoD?

Any thoughts on this?

They need a reason to do so. Imperial China was more prone to the tributary system, which worked better for them. Neither cold Siberia or dry Central Asia would be particularly appealing for settlement.
 
They need a reason to do so. Imperial China was more prone to the tributary system, which worked better for them. Neither cold Siberia or dry Central Asia would be particularly appealing for settlement.
The problem wasn't the tributary system.The problem was that most Chinese Empires can't contend with the nomads,let alone expand to freezing Siberia.Even in the case of powerful empires like the Han and Tang empires,the nomads were only submissive nominally and there were frequently rebellions out in the steppes.
 
Tang reached Central Asia more or less. And Han actually before them. The problem is when there is a trouble in the heart of the Empire, these lands too easy to fall off, like it happened OTL. You'll need more stable long-lived dynasty to keep CA in chinese sphere.

On the other hand there was Yuan dynasty. I don't really know how to do it, but keep Mongolian Empire together and keep Yuan lead it, and you'll have both Siberia and Central Asia Chinese eventually.

There is a series of Russian pseudo alt-history novels taking place in such a country called Ordus which is basically Chinese Empire on steroids.
 
The Han, Wei, Jin, Tang, Ming, and Qing all managed to extend Chinese rule to central Asia, despite having it fall off every time something happens at home. If China was better equipped to control and defeat the nomads, and suffered from less instability, I could see expansion into Siberia, or (further) expansion into Central Asia.

Next question would be motivation - why does the emperor want this frozen piece of land? If they found gold/silver/other precious metals and valuables, I could see China going for it, but barring that... Perhaps to enforce control over the region?
 
The Han, Wei, Jin, Tang, Ming, and Qing all managed to extend Chinese rule to central Asia, despite having it fall off every time something happens at home. If China was better equipped to control and defeat the nomads, and suffered from less instability, I could see expansion into Siberia, or (further) expansion into Central Asia.

Next question would be motivation - why does the emperor want this frozen piece of land? If they found gold/silver/other precious metals and valuables, I could see China going for it, but barring that... Perhaps to enforce control over the region?
Problem was that there's no profit to be gained from controlling the steppes.It was in fact far cheaper to just bribe the nomads and get their cooperation.The Han Dynasty was virtually bankrupt fighting the Xiongnu despite massive victories against them.
 
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CaliGuy

Banned
Problem was that there's no profit to be gained from controlling the steppes.It was in fact far cheaper to just bribe the nomads and get their cooperation.The Han Dynasty was virtually bankrupt fighting the Xiongnu despite massive victory against them.
Question--was the 16th century Chinese military more powerful than the Spanish and Portuguese militaries back then?
 
Question--was the 16th century Chinese military more powerful than the Spanish and Portuguese militaries back then?
Yes and no. On paper,the army could deploy over a million troops and there were a number of well trained ,well equipped units,like the ones led by Qi Jiguang.As a whole though,the bulk of the Ming army consisted of poorly trained and equipped militia troops whose commanders were often corrupt and inept due to being poorly paid and getting their position due to their ancestry.The Ming Dynasty tried to replicate the fubing system of the Tang Dynasty where the bulk of the army consisted of hereditary troops granted lands to farm in exchange for their services.Problem was that this is essentially a major step backwards as the troops are not professionals and that over time,corrupt commanders would quietly usurp land from their troops, rendering the troops insufficiently paid and became little more than tenants of their commanders(who mostly inherited their rank) in some cases.This seriously affected the quality,training and motivation of the troops and so the bulk of the Ming army was pretty useless and was a drain on resources.Attempts to rectify this resulted in the recruitment of professional troops like the ones led by Qi Jiguang.Despite promising start,the Ming Dynasty ultimately reverted to being apprehensive of the army and so,bureaucrats started commanding the army at the latter stages of the dynasty just like the Song Dynasty.This most likely would have had an adverse effect on the army.
 
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