Plausability check for Crusaders going native

I was wondering how you could get a significant chunk of the Crusader nobility to go native to the point where they would consider forming alliances with neighbouring Islamic states neighbouring states (The Burids of Damascus come to mind ) against common enemies may they be Christian (A new crusade that attempts to remove the Poulains , Byzantines), Muslim (the Zengids for example) or if they last long enough the Mongols.

EDIT : By Poulain I mean the Crusaders who have gone native.
 
They did make alliances with Muslim states and against each other. I think once or twice they allied with Muslim states to fight the Byzzies. Jerusalem was allied with Damascus at the time of the second crusade I want to say (and betrayed them). Not that implausible. Just one more reason the Europeans considered the Outremer Franks degenerate.
 
They did make alliances with Muslim states and against each other. I think once or twice they allied with Muslim states to fight the Byzzies. Jerusalem was allied with Damascus at the time of the second crusade I want to say (and betrayed them). Not that implausible. Just one more reason the Europeans considered the Outremer Franks degenerate.

Thanks for the reply MNPundit.

The problem is in almost every case alliances entered into by the Crusaders with anyone who wasn't a Catholic Christian was essentially an extremely short marriage of convenience that would be revoked the second the mutual enemy had retreated,

What I am asking is if the Crusaders could cultivate the idea that they needed a long term ally who was not half the Med away. In other words, is there anyway the Crusaders could parlay their short term alliances into a sustainable long term prescence in the Holy Land that would allow them to last as a sizeable prescence in the region for several centuries ?
 

Typo

Banned
I was wondering how you could get a significant chunk of the Crusader nobility to go native to the point where they would consider forming alliances with neighbouring Islamic states neighbouring states (The Burids of Damascus come to mind ) against common enemies may they be Christian (A new crusade that attempts to remove the Poulains , Byzantines), Muslim (the Zengids for example) or if they last long enough the Mongols.

EDIT : By Poulain I mean the Crusaders who have gone native.
They did make alliances with neighboring Islamic states, and was quite successful at it until Saladin. There was significant rivalry between the crusading states, and second generation Franks tend to dress in Arabic clothing though remaining Christian.
 
Perhaps a good POD would be the Second Crusade not travelling halfway across Europe to then attack Outremer's main ally in the region?
 
Perhaps a good POD would be the Second Crusade not travelling halfway across Europe to then attack Outremer's main ally in the region?
Seconded. The big problem the Kingdom of Jerusalem had with any efforts at peace/alliance was the fact that crusaders fresh from Europe had a bad habit of killing anything that they thought looked Muslim.
 
I'll just repost something I wrote 6 months ago:
MNPundit said:
First assumption, the ladies of the Crusade (Melisande and Eleanor--who consistently showed themselves much smarter than the men) get their way and instead of attacking ally Damascus, they join up with Damascus to go up against Nuradin. In OTL the fall of Edessa made Raymond knuckle under to Manuel and they began to work together a bit more. Second assumption, with the rest of the Crusaders attacking Nuradin, he returns with some Byzantine aid (maybe even Manuel himself) and together with the help of the Hashashim they force a fight with Nuradin. So you'd have: Byzantium, Antioch, Jerusalem, Second Crusade, Damascus, Assassins v. Nuradin.

Then I guess it all depends on what happens there. Can Nuradin win against all of them at once? I think he'd retreat back to Aleppo. But if the Crusaders make him run from Edessa they'll push on to Aleppo, maybe with angreement to hand it over to Damascus. Nuradin has to force a decision at Aleppo or he loses what he got from his father and his power would be broken. So a battle around Aleppo for everything. If Nuradin wins, the Crusaders go down faster, the grand alliance+Second Crusade is defeated and that's got to be a crushing blow, even more than the reality of OTL.

If the Crusaders win then the invasions of Egypt later are stronger, maybe with some real Byzantine help since they see that the Crusaders really can get their act together. Also if Nuradin lost at Aleppo maybe no Saladin, or a different Saladin assasinates Nuradin (maybe by orders of Shirkuh) who has clearly lost the jihad mandate, and is busy picking up the pieces around Mosul instead of taking over Egypt.

I admit it's a pretty big stretch.
 
If I may quote Fulcher of Chartres, a Crusader historian writing around 1115

"Consider, I pray, and reflect bow in our time God has transferred the West into the East, For we who were Occidentals now have been made Orientals. He who was a Roman or a Frank is now a Galilaean, or an inhabitant of Palestine. One who was a citizen of Rheims or of Chartres now has been made a citizen of Tyre or of Antioch. We have already forgotten the places of our birth; already they have become unknown to many of us, or, at least, are unmentioned. Some already possess here homes and servants which they have received through inheritance. Some have taken wives not merely of their own people, but Syrians, or Armenians, or even Saracens who have received the grace of baptism. Some have with them father-in-law, or daughter-in-law, or son-in-law, or stepson, or step-father. There are here, too, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. One cultivates vines, another the fields. The one and the other use mutually the speech and the idioms of the different languages. Different languages, now made common, become known to both races, and faith unites those whose forefathers were strangers. As it is written, "The lion and the ox shall eat straw together." Those who were strangers are now natives; and he who was a sojourner now has become a resident, Our parents and relatives from day to day come to join us, abandoning, even though reluctantly, all that they possess. For those who were poor there, here God makes rich. Those who had few coins, here possess countless besants; and those who had not had a villa, here, by the gift of God, already possess a city. Therefore why should one who has found the East so favorable return to the West? "

Even by this early point, they were already starting to assimilate. It's not that hard to imagine them assimilating even more.
 
Top