Place In the Sun: What If Italy Joined the Central Powers? (1.0)

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Sphenodon

Sphenodon

The Greens are in! The Greens are in!

Yeah, out of the Russian Civil War factions both IRL and ITTL, Antonov's is one of the least morally ambiguous. I am glad this TL brought them to light, as they were an important example both of how godawful life was for the average peasant during the war and their ability to stand against requisitioning forces. Delineation about the state of the famine is good to see too, if sobering and raw.

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
The decision of the Tsarists to win prestige by destroying Petrograd, while letting their enemy have the economic resources of the North Caucasus, was surely the greatest blunder of the Russian Civil War.
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Given the choice of a golden grail or a shovel in the chernozem in the middle of a war, I'd take a the shovel too. Gold really is only worth its weight in oats.

All that said, I am interested to see what the future holds in stock for Antonov, and how his movement will affect the RCW from here on out. The mentions last chapter of how the Tsarist troops sent to Petrograd could have the win that year implies to me that it will drag on for some time yet, so I don't think the Republic will implode immediately; whether that means Lenin and Kerensky (or one of them) come back out from the woodwork, or someone else takes the reins, I reckon the leadership void won't last too long.

Regardless, Antonov will probably end up in a better spot than he did OTL - while he may right now be one cog in an ungainly machine, here he isn't a lone cog against a hostile and largely united machine. He also has allies in the Soviets ITTL, whereas IRL they forcibly quashed him.
 

avernite

Well. I still think the rest of the civil war must be done more competently than Tsarist Russians have any right to be :p

But I can see how losing the North Caucasus could hurt a lot. Do the Tsarists hold any of the other key grain regions (i.e. Ukraine to the Urals, primarily; I know the rebels hold the Volga, but how far west and east do they stretch?)
 
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Alpha-King98760

Alpha-King98760

I must say when push comes shove, I'd probably side with the Greens. And grain is worth more to a starving peasant than gold. After all gold is only valuable because mankind has assigned an artificial value to it and eventually might lose that value. Whereas food, sustenance, will always have value.
 
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Alpha-King98760

Alpha-King98760

avernite said:
Well. I still think the rest of the civil war must be done more competently than Tsarist Russians have any right to be :p

But I can see how losing the North Caucasus could hurt a lot. Do the Tsarists hold any of the other key regions (i.e. Ukraine to the Urals, primarily; I know the rebels hold the Volga, but how far west and east do they stretch?)
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Isn't the Ukraine a German puppet state or am I misremembering it?
 
Gabingston

Gabingston

Russian peasants be like:
(Yes, I know the conditions and status of Russian peasants are better than that of Afro-American slaves, but the conditions are still terrible).
 
Jaenera Targaryen

Jaenera Targaryen

Gabingston said:
Russian peasants be like:
(Yes, I know the conditions and status of Russian peasants are better than that of Afro-American slaves, but the conditions are still terrible).
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I have long held the opinion that no matter what any know it all academic or amateur says, serf and slave practically mean the same thing.
 
Tertius711

Tertius711

Jaenera Targaryen said:
I have long held the opinion that no matter what any know it all academic or amateur says, serf and slave practically mean the same thing.
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But serfs aren't property! They're only bound to the land they're born on, have to work for their lord until the day they die, can't leave or marry without permission! Totally not slavery! Serfdom and slavery are totes different things! REEEEEEE!
 
Just a Turteldove Fan

Just a Turteldove Fan

Wow, this update was a perfect representation of how the peasants suffered during this war. Nevertheless I think the Tsarist will win, Antonov will probably feel guilty and revolt again dealing a deathblow to the republic. In the next chapter we will see Antonov form a soviet state in the south of the country figthing the Tsarist after the republic fell.
 
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Kylia

Kylia

I'm not sure how a 'Peasants' state could actually be functional in the modern era, so I don't see Antonov winning without making compromises...
 

Pedersen

Just a Turteldove Fan said:
Wow, this update was a perfect representation of how the peasants suffered during this war. Nevertheless I think the Tsarist will win, Antonov will probably feel guilty and revolt again dealing a deathblow to the republic. In the next chapter we will see Antonov form a soviet state in the south of the country figthing the Tsarist after the republic fell.
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Ah... Antonov. Always the rebel, never the victor.
 

ahmedali

Banned

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth​


Your TIMELINE is so amazing and I enjoyed it so much with the amount of information it had and I hope it continues
 

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth

ahmedali said:
Pardon and keep writing this great timeline

I'm excited for the upcoming chapters on Danubia and the UK (which has literally become the Weimar Republic in this world)

And I'm excited about Danubia, will we see it expand and will it survive until 2021?
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I hate to disappoint, but I intend to finish the Russian Civil War before looking at Danubia again.
I like the analogy between the UK and Weimar Republic... one hopes it will be less susceptible to a radical take-over than Weimar Germany though.

Spoilers on Danubia!
 

ahmedali

Banned
Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
I hate to disappoint, but I intend to finish the Russian Civil War before looking at Danubia again.
I like the analogy between the UK and Weimar Republic... one hopes it will be less susceptible to a radical take-over than Weimar Germany though.

Spoilers on Danubia!
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No problem, do as you see fit

I loved those chapters about the Russian Civil War and its dark atmosphere, as I think the fate of Nicholas II here is well deserved, even though I wished for his death, and it seems that Russia in this world will be more like Franco's Spain

Where are Kolchak, Ungren and Wrangel, I can't find any mention of them here, given that they became famous because of the Russian civil war, or will you prepare them for a role?

Literally the situation of the United Kingdom is like the Weimar Republic, although they have gained somewhat the hope that the British have a better future in this world

Looks like Danubia will have a bright future

I'm so excited for the next chapters
 

Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth

ahmedali said:
No problem, do as you see fit

I loved those chapters about the Russian Civil War and its dark atmosphere, as I think the fate of Nicholas II here is well deserved, even though I wished for his death, and it seems that Russia in this world will be more like Franco's Spain

Where are Kolchak, Ungren and Wrangel, I can't find any mention of them here, given that they became famous because of the Russian civil war, or will you prepare them for a role?

Literally the situation of the United Kingdom is like the Weimar Republic, although they have gained somewhat the hope that the British have a better future in this world

Looks like Danubia will have a bright future

I'm so excited for the next chapters
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Glad you like the RCW. It's a lot... but I think it's decent.

Kolchak is with the Tsarists. He played a role in extracting the Russian Black Sea Fleet from revolutionaries in Odessa. After a brief stint in Constantinople, they went to the Baltic Sea and played a role in the capture of Petrograd.

I addressed Ungern's fate a few pages back:
Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
Baron Roman von Ungarn-Sternberg was a fierce opponent of Tsar Michael II's liberal reforms. Totally devoted to Orthodoxy, Autocracy, and Nationality, he gave his vocal support to the 15 April 1918 attack on the Duma which killed Michael, though he didn't actively participate. This was a serious blunder, as it put him in the new regime's black books. Von Ungarn-Sternberg was one of those arrested in the wake of the attack, though he wasn't executed. Once the Russian Civil War broke out, the inmates in Von Ungarn-Sternberg's prison camp revolted and killed the guards. He refused to have anything to do with his fellow inmates, believing them traitors (even though they'd just freed him). Travelling to Vladivostok, he presented himself to the Tsarist governor in August 1918, and recieved command of a cavalry company (though his title, 'Baron', was not formally restored). As of right now, he's a minor, unimportant, not particularly popular, cavalry officer in the Tsarist army.
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Nothing's changed since.

I haven't actually given much thought to Wrangel- thanks for bringing him up.
 

ahmedali

Banned
Kaiser Wilhelm the Tenth said:
Glad you like the RCW. It's a lot... but I think it's decent.

Kolchak is with the Tsarists. He played a role in extracting the Russian Black Sea Fleet from revolutionaries in Odessa. After a brief stint in Constantinople, they went to the Baltic Sea and played a role in the capture of Petrograd.

I addressed Ungern's fate a few pages back:

Nothing's changed since.

I haven't actually given much thought to Wrangel- thanks for bringing him up.
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Oh so beautiful and wonderful


This means that he is no longer that crazy baron famous for trying to revive the Mongol Empire


Wrangel was the commander-in-chief of the White Army and the dictator of southern Russia


And it's strange that you didn't allocate him a role, but even so, the Russian Civil War chapters were very interesting
 
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