Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Alternatehistoryguy47, Feb 23, 2011.
Sorry if the name sounds a bit weird.
Black Americans wearing coalscuttle helmets
*These were difficult to find...
I actually really like the name.
Also, I recognize the above pictures as IOTL soldiers of the army of the Dominican Republic during the 1950s.
I love all of these, but one nitpick.
I don't think you have Harlem Hellfighters, but the Boston Hellfighters, or Beacon Hill. (Boston becomes/stays the epicenter of Black life in the United States. Harlem only began getting Black residents during the Great Migration in the 1910s and that won't happen with the CS-US rivalry.) Same for Massachusetts being the home of Free Blacks and home of the forefathers of African Americans with Pennsylvania.
I could change it to "West Philly Warriors". Philadelphia has always had a stable of population of Blacks even before the War of Secession.
That sounds like an great idea and I think fits in very well within TL-191. Thank you for bringing this up.
Confederate Soldiers of the Second Mexican War, otherwise known as the War of 1881
Confederate Cavalry Charge
Last Stand of a Confederate troop
Confederate soldiers; one wearing a pith helmet, the other a slouch hat
Three Confederate soldiers
*I used pictures from the Boer Wars as a template for the uniforms of the Confederate army.
**It's possible that the pith helmet may have been used by the C.S. army, but I'd imagine the kepi and slouch hat would be more common.
Photograph of former C.S. President Don Partridge standing trial in Arlington. Partridge narrowly escaped execution (thanks to Gen. Morrell) and received life in prison. Partridge was imprisoned at Fort Mahan, located fifteen miles outside of Charlotte, North Carolina. Due to his old age, an appeal to release Partridge was approved in 1977. Partridge, however, was found dead with a gash under his chin on October 13, 1977. He was the last living member of Featherston's inner circle at the time of his death.
Neo-Freedomites and Neo-Confederates have purported conspiracy theories regarding Partridge's suicide. David Duke, leader of the Sons of the Golden Circle, has repeatedly stated that Partridge was going to expose the American treatment of Confederate civilians during the war and other warcrimes committed by the United States.
There's a new thread up about "The Race" invading the world of TL-191 https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/the-race-invade-timeline-191-southern-victory.466944/
Thought some of you here might find it interesting.
Non-Americans in the War of Secession
Joseph Pierce, Chinese Union Soldier, who was part of the 14th Connecticut Infantry Regiment, Company F. Pierce would only fight in the Battle of Camp Hill.
Diego Archuleta fought for the Union in the 1st Infantry Regiment, New Mexico Militia. He fought in the Battle of Valverde and was the first Hispanic to become a Brigadier General.
Ambrosio José Gonzales, a Cuban Confederate Colonel, was present during the Battle of Fort Sumter
Manuel Antonio Chaves was a Spanish Mexican who became a Lt. Col. in the Union army. He fought during the Battle of Valverde and Battle of Glorieta Pass
Henry Hoʻolulu Pitman, a Native Hawaiian, fought for the Union as a Private during the Second Battle of Manassas
King Mindaugas II of Lithuania, born Prince Wilhelm of Urach, Count of Württemberg, 2nd Duke of Urach, the German King of the Kingdom of Lithuania from July 11, 1918 until his death in Vilnius on March 24, 1928. He was the first king of Lithuania since the fall of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in 1795.
King Mindaugas III of Lithuania, born Karl Gero, Duke of Urach, the second king of the German puppet state of the Kingdom of Lithuania from 1928 until his death in 1981. Although born and raised in Germany, he enthusiastically adopted the nation and culture of his adoptive land of Lithuania. He was an inspiring leader during the Second Great War and the Russian invasion of the Baltic states.
Rüdiger von der Goltz, German general and leader of the Baltische Landeswehr, the armed forces of the Baltic-German Couronian and Livonian nobility, during the early years of the Russian Civil War from 1917 to 1919. After the fall of the Russian Empire and during the Estonian and Latvian Wars of Independence, the Baltische Landeswehr was supported by the German Empire, which sought to establish a "Baltic Duchy" over Courland and Livonia under Baltic German hegemony. However, after three years of world-wide war, the German army was war weary and demoralized, and as a result the German armies and their proxies in the Baltic region were not able to suppress the Latvian and Estonian nationalists, which were supported by some volunteers from the United Kingdom, which wanted to weaken German power in the aftermath of their defeat in the Great War. All of this climaxed in the Battle of Cēsis from June 19 to June 23, 1919, in which the Estonians and Latvians defeated the Baltische Landeswehr, after-which the war stagnated into stalemate. On August 31, 1919, negotiations began between the German and Estonian and Latvian governments. On November 19, 1919, the Treaty of Tartu was signed between the German Empire and the Republic of Estonia and the Republic of Latvia. As a result, the republics of Estonia and Latvia were recognized by the German Empire in exchange for both republics becoming puppet states of the German Empire. Afterwards, the Baltische Landeswehr was disbanded, with its members either moving to Germany, staying in Latvia and Estonia or joining the Latvian and Estonian armies where they offered valuable help to the fledgling armies against fears of a Russian or Bolshevik invasion. After this, von der Goltz continued to fight with German armies fighting against the Bolsheviks until 1921. After his return to Germany, he was the head of the German department on the military education of German youth from 1925 to 1932. Afterwards, he went into retirement. During the Second Great War, he briefly returned to public life and appeared at many events throughout the German Empire supporting and raising funds for the war effort against the Entente Powers. On November 4, 1946, he died of natural causes on the Kinsegg estate, in the village of Bernbeuren, Kingdom of Bavaria, German Empire.
A soldier in the Baltische Landeswehr, circa 1918.
Konstantin Päts, first President of Estonia.
Jānis Čakste, first President of Latvia.
Kazys Škirpa, leader of the Lithuanian Activist Front (LAF), a Lithuanian nationalist organization that was anti-German, anti-Russian, anti-semetic and anti-Polish. Founded in 1941, during the Russian invasion and occupation of Lithuania, the LAF fought against the armies of Germany, Poland, the Baltic States and the Russian Empire, as well as German, Jewish, Polish and Russian civilians. In spite of being officially against Russia, members of the LAF were known to selectively collaborate with the Russian occupiers. After the war, Škirpa fled Lithuania to Switzerland and then to Rome, Italy. In 1952, he was extradited from Italy to Lithuania. After a lengthily trail in Vilnius, he was sentenced to death for numerous war crimes. He was executed by hanging in Vilnius on December 23, 1953 at the age of 58.
Flag of the Chetniks, which was a Serbian nationalist and royalist para-military group that was active in Austro-Hungarian-occupied Serbia during the Second Great War. The Chetniks were established by Dragoljub "Draža" Mihailović, a veteran of the Serbian Army during the First Great War and a general in the Serbian Territorial Army, the para-military force and de-facto army of Austro-Hungarian-occupied Serbia. During the war, the Chetniks fought against the Austro-Hungarians alongside other Serbian rebel groups. Out of all of the Serbian rebel groups, which including republicans, communists, socialists, nationalists and royalists, the Chetniks stood out as the most terroristic and brutal. During the war, the Chetniks committed a number of atrocities against Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats in Bosnia, as the Chetniks hoped to established a "Greater Serbia" after a fall of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. These atrocities included the killing of civilians, burning of villages, assassinations and destruction of property, thus exacerbating existing ethnic tensions between Croats and Serbs in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. During the war, the Chetniks received token support from the Russian Empire, the Kingdom of France and the United Kingdom. After the war, the Chetniks were disbanded and banned by the Austro-Hungarian and Serbian authorities. By 1945, the Chetnik insurgents had been completely decimated.
Dragoljub "Draža" Mihailović, leader of the Chetniks. On June 17, 1944, "Uncle Draza" was killed in a violent fire-fight against Austrian, Hungarian, Croatian and loyalist Serbian soldiers outside of the city of Kragujevac. His dead boy, which was full of bullet holes, was then dumped in an unmarked grave in the surrounding countryside.
Milan Stojadinović, first Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Serbia, a constituent kingdom of the Danubian Empire, a successor state to the Austro-Hungarian Empire established on June 14, 1950.
Vladimir "Vladko" Maček, first Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Croatia, a constituent kingdom of the Danubian Empire.
Ante Pavelić, leader of the Ustaše, a Croatian actionist and ultra-nationalist terrorist organization and para-military group active during the inter-war period and the Second Great War. The party was founded in 1932 by Pavelić, a former member of the Croatian Party of Rights who was exiled from Austria-Hungary for publically espousing violent views against the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Hapsburg monarchy, along with other emigrant Croats and former members of the Croatian Party of Rights in Montpellier, Kingdom of France. The Ustaše was highly nationalistic and supported the establishment of an independent "Greater Croatia" free of ethnic Serbs, Germans, Hungarians, Jews and Roma, but tolerant of Bosniaks. During the inter-war period, the Ustaše was unofficially supported with funds by both the Kingdom of France and the Russian Empire. During the Second Great War, the French-based Ustaše failed to gain any mainstream support within the Croatian lands of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, as most Croats were loyal to the Emperor and fearful of the Serbian Chetniks. After the surrender of France to Germany, Pavelić fled on a private plane to Zurich, Switzerland, afterwhich he fled to Cartagena, Spain. On August 17, 1944, while landing outside of Cartagena, his plane crashed, killing all men on board. The remants of the bodies of the dead were then cremated and dumped into the Mediterranean Sea by Falangist Spanish authorities. Soon afterwards, the party disbanded and was banned in the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Serbian Chetniks, alongside other royalist and republican rebels, march with captured Austro-Hungarian soldiers through Užice, autumn 1942.
Serbian chetniks with a captured Austrian officer, 1943.
Members of the Slovene Blue Guard, a small Slovenian rebel group that fought against the Austro-Hungarian Empire, 1943. By the end of the war, the Blue Guard was almost completely decimated, with almost all its members executed or in custody.
Flag of the Danubian Empire, adopted on June 14, 1950.
José Antonio Primo de Rivera, Caudillo of the Spanish State from 1939 until his death in 1968. After the deaths of Emilio Mola and Francisco Franco during the Spanish Civil War, the young Primo de Rivera, leader of the Falange Española de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional Sindicalista, the main actionist party in Spain, became the de facto leader of the Spanish nationalists in opposition to the Kingdom of Spain and the Anarcho-Communists of Catalonia. After the end of the Civil War, the Joven Caudillo began a consolidation of total power over the nation of Spain with the assistance of his allies in the Falange, the Spanish Army, the Catholic Church, numerous militia groups, among others. Throughout his twenty-nine year rule, Spain was an actionist and authoritarian state which showed total brutality towards any and all leftists who rose up in rebellion during the civil war, as well as any other political dissidents, including monarchists, republicans, freemasons and the Jewish minority in Spain. As a result, the White Terror in Spain, which lasted throughout the 1930s and 1940s, caused many deaths amongst both public and private individuals in Spain. Jews were not murdered, but were very much discriminated against in Spanish society. The Spanish State also intensely suppressed any forms of Basque, Catalan, Galician, Aragonian and Andalusian nationalism and also many aspects of their respective cultures. The same held true for Puerto Rico, the last jewel of the Spanish Empire. Any form of Puerto Rican separatism was intensely suppressed and propaganda supported the idea that the island was an integral part of Spain and as Spanish as the mainland.
During the Second Great War, Spain remained neutral but sympathetic to the Entente, and even sent the Blue Division to fight with the French armies in the Low Countries and Germany. After the war and during the 1950s, Primo de Rivera, while continuing to rule Spain as a conservative, Catholic and so-called "moral" nation, also began to open up the Spanish State more to outside world, abandoning some of the autarkic economics of the past decade and opening Spain up to foreign investment, mostly from the United States, Germany and the resurgent and recovering nations of the United Kingdom and France. During the 1950s and 1960s, Spain became one of the most popular tourist destinations for Americans and Germans, this being in spite of the politics of Spain which most foreigners found to be distasteful. In the 1960s, Spain relaxed some of its anti-Jewish laws, but continued to brutally suppress any form of regional ethnic identity. Primo de Rivera died suddenly from cancer on September 29, 1968 at the age of 65, after which a semi-Falangist, authoritarian military junta ruled over Spain until the return of democracy to Spain from 1972 to 1974.
(I edited this post to get rid of the mention of Puerto Rico, as in my head-canon Puerto Rico was invaded by the USA in 1946.)
Flag of the Spanish State, officially adopted on May 20, 1939.
I really enjoy your latest posts.
However, I am surprise at the Ustaše. OTL, Croatia was loyal to the Habsburg monarchy for centuries,going back to the Austrians protecting the Croats from the Turks in the 16th Century, and many famous Croat heroes was of Austrian origin. I honesty doubt anything like the Ustaše would come to be, more so with the threat of the Chetniks and Serbian nationalist. I doubt Ante Pavelić would have very much support at home, if any at all, as most Croats would still be very loyal to Austria, or at least be more feared of the Serbs.
José Antonio is very interesting as is his rule of Spain. Did the Monarchy return? (And what of the Republicans? Anything on why they didn't become an main force in the Spanish Civil War?)
My own idea for Puerto Rico was America took it in the last days of the Second Great War, viewing it as an eyesore and an threat, just as they would to Alaska. (Not like the Spanish, or the Russians could do much to stop the Union. I just want the picture of American Paratroopers jumping in and Puerto Rican Nationalists return to their homeland at long last, free at last.)
Very good points. I'll edit my post accordingly.
The Spanish Civil War was, according to the books, between the monarchy and the nationalists. I imagine most of the OTL republicans would support the monarchy. A lot of that post was also based on the Filling the Gaps article on the Spanish Civil War.
Interesting idea about Puerto Rico. I'm not sure if should be canon, but I still like it.
King Leopold III of Belgium, king of Belgium from 1917 until his death in 1980 and during the German occupation of Belgium that lasted from 1917 to 1945. He became king of Belgium after the abdication of his father King Albert I in the aftermath of Belgium's defeat in the First Great War. During the first years of the German occupation of Belgium, the nation was under a military administration. After the Stock Market Crash of 1929, Germany allowed limited parliamentary rule and elections to return to the nation and coexist with the military administration, under the condition that the new governments would not oppose German occupation. On May 25, 1945, the independence of Belgium was restored in return for Belgian loyalty towards Germany during the Second Great War, with the restored Kingdom of Belgium as a puppet state of Germany.
Prince Charles, Count of Flanders, the younger brother of King Leopold III and a general in the Belgian Territorial Army, the Belgian militia of German-occupied Belgium, during the Second Great War.
Léon Degrelle, leader of the Rexist Party, an actionist, royalist, catholic, traditionalist and corporatist political party that was active in Walloonia in German occupied-Belgium and influenced by the Action Francaise party in the Kingdom of France. The party was founded on November 2, 1935 and called for a restoration of Walloon sovereignty from German occupation and alliance of an independent Walloonia with the Kingdom of France. In 1938, the party was banned by the German authorities, with Degrelle being arrested by the German military and imprisoned in Brussels. After the French invasion of Belgium, Degrelle was released from prison by the French armies. Afterwards, the Rexist Party was reestablished, and Degrelle began activity collaborating with the French and British occupiers of Belgium and supported either a unification of Walloonia into the Kingdom of France or Walloonia as a principality and puppet state of the Kingdom of France with Degrelle as regent of Walloonia. During the French occupation of Belgium, Degrelle was also a founder of and colonel in the Walloon Regiment, a regiment of pro-French Walloons in the French Army. During the war, the Walloon Regiment was known to have committed a number of war crimes against both Belgian and German civilians and soldiers. After the liberation of Belgium by Germany and the German capture of Brussels on February 20, 1944, Degrelle fled to Paris with other Rexists and pro-French Walloons. By April, 1944, Belgium was completely recaptured by Germany and the Walloon Regiment had been almost completely decimated. Soon afterwards, Degrelle fled to Bordeaux. After the surrender of France to Germany, Degrelle fled to Mérida in the Spanish State. For the next decades, Degrelle, under the name of José León Ramírez Reina, lived a comfortable life in Spain and actively supported the Falangist government. After the return of democracy to Spain in the 1970s, Degrelle now in his sixties and seventies, continued to live comfortably, and he had no regrets over his past allegiance to the Kingdom of France and Action Francaise and still actively supported far-rightist remnant groups in Spain. On September 12, 2000, Degrelle died of cardiac arrest at the age of 94 in San Sebastián, Basque Country, Spain.
Anton Mussert, leader of the National Dutch Movement (Nationale Nederlandse Beweging), the main actionist political party within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, which was influenced mainly by the Fascists in Italy and the Mosleyites in the United Kingdom. During the Anglo-French invasion of the Netherlands, Mussert and NNB actively collaborated with the invaders and established an actionist Dutch Provisional Government in French-occupied Breda that actively supported an actionist takeover of the Netherlands, as well as Dutch regiments in the French Army. Luckily, the heavily defended Amsterdam never fell to the armies of France and Great Britain. After the liberation of the Netherlands by the German and Dutch armies, Mussert and all of the members of his provisional government were arrested by the Dutch army. On August 6, 1944, the NNB was banned within the Netherlands. On June 8, 1945, Mussert was executed by firing squad outside of The Hauge for the crimes of high treason against the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
The official symbol of the NNB. The official flag of the NNB consisted of this symbol in the center in black defacing a flag of the Republic of the Netherlands in Orange, White and Light Blue.
Wilhelmina of the Netherlands giving a speech over Radio Oranje, the official radio program of the Dutch government in Amsterdam, in the aftermath of the Anglo-French Invasion of the Netherlands, October 20, 1941. Wilhelmina would continue to reign as Queen of the Netherlands until her death at the age of 80 in 1960.
Wilhelmina of the Netherlands speaking to the Untied States Congress in Philadelphia, 1945. In her speech to Congress, she thanked the United States of America for being allies with Germany during the Entente invasion of Netherlands and for supporting the Netherlands during the war. She also called for a continued friendship between the United States of America and the Kingdom of the Netherlands, hearkening back to the Dutch colonization of New York and other parts of the future United States.
Me and @Joshua Ben Ari talked about him, and Gonzales can be an lot of fun. Even making him Governor, or Senator of Confederate Cuba. (Who in OTL, missed out on the Spanish-American War by only an few years.)
Separate names with a comma.